Topic: Build 19 RC1

21 — 30 of 37 Posts ‹‹ previous 1 2 3 4 next ››

Tibor Joined: 2009-03-23, 22:24 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:04 DragonAtma wrote: kaputtnik wrote: I think this not the right place for criticism to build 19. All Changes for this build were discussed formerly and everyone had the chance to participate on that discussions. If you think something should be better, or some of the former decisions were wrong, anyone is invited to open new discussions for the next build. For build19 it's definitely too late. Some of the changes are just new (like player colors in buildings menu). I am sure we all need just a bit of familiarization to it Correction: It's too late for most things, but not for show stoppers. And if a CPU player is willing to completely ruin itself by overbuilding so much they run out of wood before they finish a lumberjack, that's definitely a showstopper. But why should I let my words go untested? There's an easy way to test it, and it only takes a few minutes: Start a 7-player CPU-only Endless Game (no fog) on the Riverlands map (where every CPU is an Normal AI Atlantean Fortified Village) and see how many build themselves into oblivion. If even one does so it's severe enough that they need to fix the AI. But you should report to us if one of them does, to confirm that I'm not seeing an unusual situation. For AI: AI has not been changed for about half year. You should come up with the issue sooner. But I admit that "fortified village" scenario was not tested much. If it was a change of two lines of code - I would do it, but amount of code to change is hard to even estimate, and it will need a lot of testing afterwards. I am working on other changes to AI and I am going to include there a map with fortified village and atlanteans into testing set so the issue will be addressed. But it is work for half year (alongside with other changes to) - nothing that can be introduced within a week or so. Top Quote

SirVer Joined: 2009-02-19, 14:18 Posts: 1445 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:15 Widelands designers are not `young` and Widelands is about building up, not burning down - because that is what you focus your time on. Also, "Collectors" is the win condition Widelands is to meant to be played in. Your opinion matters, but please keep them constructive instead of venting in personal attacks. Please keep the criticism of the game away from the criticism of people - which has no place anywhere in this forum or community. Build 19 is a step forward - but it is still a alpha. Please keep that in mind. Most of the issues in this thread (e.g. no naval conquer, problems with transportation, AI is too stupid among others) are known and most have improved compared to build-18. That is enough to warrant a release easily. Most other things are personal opinions - i.e. the style of graphics was a conscious choice by chuck to distinguish the buildings better from the others. I think he succeeded and I like the more industrial look - your opinion varies and is just as important as mine. And if you feel strong enough to put some action behind your complaints, why don't you create new graphics that solve the distinction problem and look better? They will likely get accepted after the usual discussion. Same goes for ALL bugs and features - help is very welcome. B. What are the winning-conditions in Autocrat at this point? Did you solve the problem of invincibility due to island property? No, as Gun said we require garrisions (i.e. code refactorings) before we can even tackle that. We did this not yet for b19. And if a CPU player is willing to completely ruin itself by overbuilding so much they run out of wood before they finish a lumberjack, that's definitely a showstopper. The AI is more clever than it ever was, but it is still stupid. It works better on some maps than on others. The important question is just if it is just as good or better than in b18 - and the answer is yes. So this is good to warrant a new release, not a show stopper at all. Test cases like yours are still very welcome though for further improvements. Top Quote

DragonAtma Joined: 2014-09-14, 00:54 Posts: 351 Tribe Member	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:17 Keep in mind that my previous Widelands release was Widelands 7418 -- so RC1 may well have been my first exposure to the new AI. That said, my advice (at least for now) is to give a Fortified Village start more logs to start with; in my testing, the AIs normally have partially-constructed woodcutters, so that should fix things. Hmm... a quick look says that an Atlantean fortified village starts with 13 logs and 45 planks; Barbarians start with 79 logs and 32 planks, while Empire starts with 29 logs and 32 planks. So boosting the Atlanteans' starting logs should fix things -- and, fortunately, that should be an easy fix. Top Quote

Tibor Joined: 2009-03-23, 22:24 Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:24 DragonAtma wrote: Keep in mind that my previous Widelands release was Widelands 7418 -- so RC1 may well have been my first exposure to the new AI. That said, my advice (at least for now) is to give a Fortified Village start more logs to start with; in my testing, the AIs normally have partially-constructed woodcutters, so that should fix things. Hmm... a quick look says that an Atlantean fortified village starts with 13 logs and 45 planks; Barbarians start with 79 logs and 32 planks, while Empire starts with 29 logs and 32 planks. So boosting the Atlanteans' starting logs should fix things -- and, fortunately, that should be an easy fix. OK, this would mitigate the issue and should have no unwanted side effects. Edit: Or at least place a lumberjack on the start. Edited: 2016-10-30, 10:26 Top Quote

DragonAtma Joined: 2014-09-14, 00:54 Posts: 351 Tribe Member	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:29 If the only trees are on the eastern part of your starting area and the lumberjack pops up in the west, he's not going to help too much So I recommend raising the starting logs, especially since the AI likes to build 15 or so buildings right off the start. Top Quote

GunChleoc Topic Opener Joined: 2013-10-07, 14:56 Posts: 3324 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:31 Well, as SirVer said, this is alpha software. And we do this as a hobby in our spare time. If we waited for all issues to be fixed before making a new release, please everybody expect the next release in 10-20 years. Provided that anybody can remain motivated enough to keep working at this without being allowed to make releases for that long, that is. More likely, the project will be dead by then. So, we're going to make a release, fullstop. FLOSS projects are a do-ocracy, that means that the people who do the work get to decide. And we do listen to players' feedback, because it's very valuable and everybody is working together very nicely here. We always do appreciate and value all contributions, be they code, art, or ideas. I really don't get where all this negativity suddenly comes from. Busy indexing nil values Top Quote

DragonAtma Joined: 2014-09-14, 00:54 Posts: 351 Tribe Member	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:37 If my comments appear to be negative, I apologize; I'm just worried about people starting a game against five AIs, only to find out that two of them never got past the starting stage. And as I'm not a programmer (at least not for Widelands), I do realize I can be overruled by half the people in this thread; I just want Widelands to be an enjoyable game that challenges people. Top Quote

GunChleoc Topic Opener Joined: 2013-10-07, 14:56 Posts: 3324 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 10:49 @DragonAtma: no problem, I know that you contribute when you can Edited: 2016-10-30, 10:49 Busy indexing nil values Top Quote

einstein13 Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01 Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 12:23 Vassili wrote: --Concerning the new map "Wild World", the creator is a vicious guy: I am not sure if I should answer this text, but: "Wild World" "WidEworld" (Like WidElands) player one have no gold, no coal, no acces to other lands because the two ennemies are in front of him. Probably we can add explanation, that player one is "position for hardcore". He can acess one port on the south and one to the north. I played many times with that position and liked it very much. He is closer to other lands so this is a profit! like often on official maps, you must know the game and the map perfectly for not block yourself, cause building port or some military buildings, cost gold. It is not a true. I played it with other players, who haven't known the map and they played with a few problems. Finally they defeated me If you think (and check) a bit before setting up a colony, you will find what you want. Do you want another easy-to-win game or challenging one? I prefer the second ones Some port construction by expedition does not provide building emplacements, you give gold and time for nothing. That is true. You can set up a port and stay there forever (but maybe till b20 it will change) the coasts are full of thousand of little detours who are just here for fuck human. Really? I've never noticed that... Play many times before you know what to do! Also I should add here a major thing: this map is given for long water journeys and garrison ports (with attack expeditions). It was announced years ago with hope that the game will be more complex and fun (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.34:Losing) Edited: 2016-10-30, 12:24 einstein13 calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/ backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/ Top Quote

toptopple Joined: 2013-10-30, 07:11 Posts: 156 At home in WL-forums	Posted at: 2016-10-30, 22:20 That much can be drawn from the philosophy of Hegel, that - a certain amount of - negativity can be interpreted as the necessary step to reach at improved recognitions. In this sense negativity is creativity, and it is my impression that everybody who wrote in this thread intended to improve the game or the "correct" recognition about it. A release is a bit like Christmas; everything that has been suppressed during the year comes up for a cleaning dealing thunderstorm. That's the way it has been in my family all the times! When if not at the first RC1 is the right time to contribute to the discriminations and drop-bomb comments? Actually I am sharing a bit of this! The Release Candidate is the ideal place to comment and criticize the work offered. That's after all what is meant by the word "candidate". Critiques are not only very honourable, they also may lead to an improved product. How much work can still be applied is a practical valid question. Of course we need to stay practical; but if e.g. a modification of a Log start value from 13 to 35 can solve a huge problem, it would be imprudent, to say the least, to miss the remark. So my word is : let's see the good side in it and accept criticism! - Saying "Now you are too late, now you must be silent!" does not - in contrast - sound very promising. Top Quote

‹‹ previous 1 2 3 4 next ››