Topic: Measuring working time of productionsites
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 08:39
Yes basically I attach my Excelsheet where you can see how long it lasts with different values of time base. As well as that it is only dependend on time base. With 10 minutes we need 24 minutes to reach 90% and then 20 minutes to go back to 10% (this is due to integer arithmetics. So for me nothing changes for AI except it may react a bit faster on economic demand, which might be not that bad, given that the Ai is still not very competitive.
what do you mean with this. I have reverted the floating duration back and I never manipulated anything else. Edited: 2020-01-24, 08:41
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Tibor Topic Opener |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 09:05
OK than Top Quote |
JanO |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 09:15
Is it possible to use the training for genetic AI to evaluate this? As Tibor says, I believe the floating time-base for those productivity calculations would affect the AI. But I would not be sure about the effect being negative. I guess it is good if AI handles small buildings like wells quite flexible, because there almost always is some place to rebuild those. But it is not good if AI dismantles pretendedly unnecessary big productionsites, builds something else there and then recognises it needs the big ones again. Flexible time-base can help prevent this, if we take care that the time base is larger for the relevant buildings. Furthermore, information about why productivity drops could be helpful for AI. As I suggested, it would be nice to have a hint if the reason is "ware not needed" or "shoratage of input". In first case it is very likely that the building can be dismantled without any harm. In the second case I would not recommend dismantling. Generating these two values from the existing code should be not to complicated, as hessenfarmer already has the two calculations (time based and cycle based). Teaching the AI to handle those independently would be harder, I guess... Top Quote |
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 09:35
I have reverted the change already back to the fixed time base of 5 minutes for all builddings. After reevaluating Tibors concern and looking into my excel it might be good to have comparable statistics for each building taking into account that the transport system might need some time to settle. Top Quote |
Tibor Topic Opener |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 11:48
The statistics is used by AI to say if we should dismantle or built another building, so f.e.: We have 4 building of type X (productionsite with inputs and outputs), average utilization is 10% (so basically all doing nothing in last ten minutes) => we can dismantle one. No need to look for a reason. If we have 4 building with average utilization 90% => we need another. However AI considers also number of outputs. Because the more outputs the lower percentage should be considered as a trigger to build new one. Also note that small buildings - depending on vicinity (woodcuters, quary, fishers...) have different and separate logic. Their output is not that important, or is not important at all. Generally we can feed AI with multiple statistics of productivity, but then re-training would be needed. Top Quote |
WorldSavior |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 16:10
@Tibor: In build20 the productivity stats work very bad, that confuses the AI. The new developed stats sound very promising, we should test them. They might help the AI. Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote |
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 17:18
the player visible Productivity stats have no influence on AI as AI was using the time based value I now want to use for the players since b20. That is the origin of this thread. However in b20 it works not that good for AI as in the computation of the value we had an integer overflow (with a 32 bit unsigned integer this is not to be expected and it took me a couple of hours to hunt this down) this is fixed now in AI and it was retrained. So currently the whole thing is about using this statistics also for the players. AI is or was fine. Top Quote |
WorldSavior |
Posted at: 2020-01-24, 20:12
Okay. Sorry then for writing incorrect stuff... Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote |
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2020-01-25, 00:15
no worries, only discussion leads to new knowledge, and these things are hard enough to understand. Top Quote |
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2020-01-27, 08:35
Grrr, Top Quote |