Topic: Bugs

Good point...

I have changed my method of calculating the costs so that it accounts for all your points.

New method: First, calculate the acc-cost in the old way. Then, it is multiplied with a factor that depends on the size of the producing building: 0,4 for small buildings, 1 for medium and 2,6 for large buildings. (This is because certain difficult maps contain approximately 2.6 and 0.4 times as many big and small as medium buildings. I have taken the values from the map "Archipelago Sea". Of course, it is not possible to use really accurate values because all maps are different.) Next, the value is multiplied with the space requirement (If the building has a working area. I have not considered that for fisher/hunter/woodcutter, because that would be useless.) A farm has an work radius of 19 fields total. 7 of them are blocked by the building, flag and road. The total space requirement is therefore 12; vineyards have 5 (total field number 7; 1 flag, 1 building). Then the value is multiplied with the average amount of this ware that is needed to fully promote 1 untrained soldier. The result is the new acc-cost.

I now assume 80 seconds for imperial and atlantean farms and the blackroot farm. For soldier promotion, I have calculated the following values:

• Atlantean: 3 smoked fish, 3 smoked meat, 9 bread.

• Empire: 16+1/3 bread, 7+1/3 fish, 7+1/3 meat

• Barbarians: 2 strong beer, 11+1/3 bread, 5+5/6 fish, 5+5/6 meat

This gives the following new statistics:

• Atlanteans: One mine cycle costs 46688,4 acc-units (it would be pointless to speak of seconds now)

• Empire: A level 1 iron or coal mine has 19692,22; level 1 gold/marble 18225,62; level 2 iron/coal 49133,1; level 2 gold/marble 47661,1

• Barbarians (assuming inns make only snacks and big inns only meals): Ration 17958,22; Snack 56946,83; Meal 60142,83.

The values have changed, but my point about the huge jump from level 1 to 2 and small jump from 3 to 4 is still standing. Also, the barbarian advantage in early game isn´t that great: Empire level 1 mines are not much more expensive.

The acc-cost for barbarian bread is very high. Taverns should be able to work without it after all.

I have calculated statistics for a changed model which also uses JanO´s suggestion about beer and strong beer. The changes are:

• The micro brewery needs 100 seconds to consume 1 wheat and 2 water to make 2 beer.

• The brewery needs 100 seconds to consume 2 wheat and 1 hop and 1 water to make 2 strong beer.

• The hop farm produces hop. It is in every other respect an exact copy of the imperial vineyard.

• The tavern needs 40 seconds to consume 3 bread, meat and/or fish. It produces 4 rations. This makes the innkeeper a magician who can turn 3 fish into 4, but that is, mathematically seen, an improvement. If the innkeeper must not be a magician, then the early-game bonus for barbarians can only improve if the imperial level 1 mines become more expensive – but that seems unreasonable.

• The inn needs 60 seconds to consume 1 bread AND 1 fish OR meat AND 1 beer. It produces 1 ration and 1 snack.

• The big inn needs 80 seconds to consume 2 bread AND 2 fish OR meat AND 1 beer AND 1 strong beer. It produces 1 ration and 1 snack and 1 meal.

And here are the new statistics:

• acc(beer) drops from 3196 to 1626.

• acc(strong beer) increases from 6392 to 6436.

• Tavern: acc(ration)=13453,92

• Inn: acc(ration)=18466,61; acc(snack)=36933,22

• Big Inn: acc(ration)=19261,61; acc(snack)=38523,22; acc(meal)=57784,83

The statistics speak for themselves.

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I am against adding the bread to barbarian consumption. Many tournament games proven that this is one of the weakest point in their economy. I need strong numbers: calculating how many bread need this economy to produce fully promoted soldier: for small, medium and deep mine. Also what are expenses for other tribes too. This comparison will show if changing any factor will differ a lot or not.

einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

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JanO wrote:

Where do I place a savegame, which the interested spectator can watch a crazy soldier fighting hot air in?

There is currently no possibility to upload a file (except maps). You have to use an external filehoster or something like DropBox if you want to provide a savegame.

Fight simulator for Widelands:
https://wide-fighter.netlify.app/

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Savegame looks normal to me. Seems like problems with battles fix themselves when loading a savegame, so they are pretty much impossible to debug

Busy indexing nil values

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I can see the crazy soldier After the green player destroys the sentry the blue soldier is attacking, the blue soldier walks back to the castle. Now one of the green soldiers follows him, stops walking and fighting the air a bit on the border. Then the blue soldier comes back and both soldiers do a normal fight.

Fight simulator for Widelands:
https://wide-fighter.netlify.app/

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