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Topic: Re-modelling Barbarian Buildings

SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1438
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One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2010-11-24, 15:48

I am against an extra animation for attack. I also think that the current idle state is quite good; in fact having a soldier parade in front of the builing is likely very irritating.

Settlers 2 added a flag when a house was occupied, in fact the number of flags was the number of soldiers, so you could see how strongly a building was fortified.


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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2010-11-24, 18:37

SirVer wrote: I am against an extra animation for attack. I also think that the current idle state is quite good; in fact having a soldier parade in front of the builing is likely very irritating.

I was not thinking parading or even guard duty. More like just ambling around, maybe sitting on the stump, warming himself at the fire, etc. But no extra animation certainly means less work for me. face-wink.png

Settlers 2 added a flag when a house was occupied, in fact the number of flags was the number of soldiers, so you could see how strongly a building was fortified.

That's a neat idea. I wonder if we would/should install such a feature to broadcast the strength of a military site, though. Open and closed doors are enough of a tip-off, don't you think?


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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 06:54

I've uploaded what I'm calling the final version of the sentry (for now). face-wink.png It has been pushed to the development trunk in rev#5751. Current graphics for it include an animation for the building's idle state, a 10 frame build sequence and one frame to represent an as yet unsupported "building waiting/worker away" state. I'll write a Bug report to request that feature be added.

In the process of rendering the sentry building, I compared its scale to the existing 2d images of similar barbarian huts (e.g quarry, hunter, etc.) In doing so, I discovered those existing models had been rendered on a non-standard rendering stage with the camera at a higher viewing angle which leads to an apparent size discrepancy and obvious differences in appearance from the standard stage. The discovery means those buildings (namely the fishers_hut, gamekeepers_hut, hunters_hut, lumberjacks_hut, quarry, rangers_hut, and scouts_hut) should be re-rendered on the standard stage. I'll write a Bug report for that, too. Other adjustments may be forthcoming after I compare the scale of the barbarian buildings to those of the newer tribes.

I think I'll stick to the current theme and concentrate on creating models for the rest of the military buildings for now. (I'm feeling particularly aggressive.) face-grin.png Next up, the stronghold. face-smile.png

Oh, yes. It's now 2 down, 31 to go (if you don't count the buildings that should be re-rendered). face-wink.png

Comments always welcome.


I see little people.

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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1438
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One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 07:57

I had not have a look at the new sentry yet, but I already want to comment on the 10 images build phase. I think this might be overkill: imagine you see a sentry being build on your border by our enemy; I feel it is very important that you know by one look how far advanced the build is. I think more than 2-3 build phases makes this extremely difficult. What do others think?


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Fopper
Joined: 2010-09-10, 07:50
Posts: 23
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Pry about Widelands
Location: The Netherlands
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 11:41

It indeed seems logical to have as many build stages as you have resources. So in this case only stage 5 (walls) and 8 (add roof) and for the last things (fire camp) you don't need resources so that can indeed be the finishing touch. At this moment I also see that the first 4 stages have wood laying around that is used in the last steps (so that is the second blackwood I guess?), that is strange when you only give it 1 and it it disappears when you feed it the second one.


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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 15:05

@SirVer: I think I understand your logic. One could then argue that only one image is ideal for a build sequence because one brief look at it would give a clear indication to the build's progress. We may be accustomed to that playing feature because it has been offered by the current lack of multi-frame build animations for most of the buildings in the game. It is my impression, that it takes no longer to show 10 frames in a build sequence than it does to show one. The 10 are just individually revealed 10 times faster in that case. Under this impression I opted to provide a little more eye candy. But if the priority is for a visual clue, one frame should suffice.

Fopper wrote: It indeed seems logical to have as many build stages as you have resources.

This, of course, does seem logical and could be arranged .

As I type this, a thought has occurred to me that could address both SirVer's concern for a reliable progress indicator and Fopper's frame-per-ware logic. I offer this up for discussion: It is impossible to predict the order in which the wares will arrive at a construction site, so showing stages of construction which are dependent on the delivery of each ware is awkward at best.
What about limiting the number of frames in a build to the number of wares needed and include a number in a corner of the frame to indicate the number of frames/wares left to be used in the build, in other words a countdown to completion? So in the case of the sentry which requires two wares, there would be two build frames, the first with a number "1" visible, the second with a number "0". Of course this mirrors the information available by clicking on the building and would spoil any "naturalness" the game map may have.

Comments?


I see little people.

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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1438
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One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 15:49

I think the idea with the number is too much; if so much information should be send to the enemy, then we can as well show the % completed in the statistics string. I agree with chuck to not bind build stages to number of resources. I also think that a constant amount of build images (like 4 build phases) for all buildings that are easily distinguishable would maybe be a compromise. One quick view would give the enemy an easy distinguishable information, that is up to ~10% correct and it would still leave a lot of room for prettiness. It would also need some "learning" for the player to distinguish the build phases of the other players military building to really extract the information provided by the visuals.

Just for the record, S2 used 2 build phases for all buildings: first: wooden frame, second: finished building.

Is there a consensus on this?


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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 16:11

SirVer wrote: ...I also think that a constant amount of build images (like 4 build phases) for all buildings that are easily distinguishable would maybe be a compromise. One quick view would give the enemy an easy distinguishable information, that is up to ~10% correct and it would still leave a lot of room for prettiness... Just for the record, S2 used 2 build phases for all buildings: first: wooden frame, second: finished building. Is there a consensus on this?

I like the 4 phase approach. I imagine it could be something like: 1) foundation, 2) walls half completed (or wooden frames if appropriate for the building), 3) complete walls, 4) roof

(Plus, it cuts staging and rendering of the build frames by 60%!) face-grin.png


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Venatrix
Joined: 2010-10-05, 20:31
Posts: 443
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Tribe Member
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 16:41

I didn't take the time to have a look at the new sentry and the building process, but as I remember the tower of the Empire is build in different phases. The first time I saw it, I was a bit irritated, because I have never realised it before, but now I think it's cool. I just don't know, if it was three or four phases.

I personally like it, as it looks more natural. But as you said, three or four stages of the building process should be enough.


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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2010-11-25, 19:01

The sentry build sequence has been changed to 4 frames in trunk rev#5752.

00 01 02 03


I see little people.

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