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Topic: Starting condition "Discoverer"

kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2018-10-30, 15:56

Just an idea:

Start a game only with ships on the Ocean, instead of having an already built headquarter. All players are starting at the same spot and each player has to sail the sea to find a good starting point.

What do you think of this idea?


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2018-10-30, 21:08

kaputtnik wrote:

Just an idea:

Start a game only with ships on the Ocean, instead of having an already built headquarter. All players are starting at the same spot and each player has to sail the sea to find a good starting point.

What do you think of this idea?

I've already thought about creating a map which approximates this situation as close as possible. Why? Because this is a typical beginning in the game "Anno 1602" and it could be fun to have that also in Widelands.

So I think that the idea could be nice. A starting condition would be better than to implement this by maps indeed...

And this reminds me at something (suggestion): Maybe it should be possible that expedition ships can load additional wares and workers - because they have space for that. This could be achieved by new buttons at the ports. (The ship should then be able to wait at the port until it's finished)


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2018-10-31, 08:20

Both ideas sound good


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2018-10-31, 11:21

I see one problem with my idea: Building a port takes a lot of time, so in the beginning it get quite boring until the port get built. A solution might be to have two ships: So during port building a player can explore further with the second ship.

And this reminds me at something (suggestion): Maybe it should be possible that expedition ships can load additional wares and workers - because they have space for that. This could be achieved by new buttons at the ports. (The ship should then be able to wait at the port until it's finished)

So one can also load some soldiers and additional wares to build up a first sentry. In this case a ships capacity should be restricted, imho.


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einstein13
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Posted at: 2018-10-31, 12:33

New starting conditions can be a big step forward to real fun! face-smile.png

But it needs some changes:

  1. Map designer should set that this starting conditions should be possible (not every map is good for this starting position)
  2. Also setting some points where the ships should be deployed, could be a good choice (something like starting point for players, but multiple of them should be possible).
  3. What about adding a ship with some basic tools, wares and some warriors?

Considering some of my maps, I have 2 perfect and 1 good choice for maps for that starting conditions (best fit is the highest):

  1. WideWorld (https://wl.widelands.org/maps/wideworld/), because finding good spot for the colony is very hard there, but when you find, you have plenty of resources
  2. Colonies (https://wl.widelands.org/maps/colonies/), because there is so much port spaces and except the middle island, everything is connected
  3. The Nile (https://wl.widelands.org/maps/the-nile-2rc1/), just because it is good map face-smile.png .

einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2018-10-31, 12:54

kaputtnik wrote:

I see one problem with my idea: Building a port takes a lot of time, so in the beginning it get quite boring until the port get built. A solution might be to have two ships: So during port building a player can explore further with the second ship.

Maybe. Or speeding up the game just solves the problem (eventually)

And this reminds me at something (suggestion): Maybe it should be possible that expedition ships can load additional wares and workers - because they have space for that. This could be achieved by new buttons at the ports. (The ship should then be able to wait at the port until it's finished)

So one can also load some soldiers and additional wares to build up a first sentry.

Wouldn't that be good? So why are you against it?

einstein13 wrote:

3 . The Nile (https://wl.widelands.org/maps/the-nile-2rc1/), just because it is good map face-smile.png .

I would even say that it is a very good map. Ice Wars too, and this one would also be possible


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2018-10-31, 15:17

WorldSavior wrote:

And this reminds me at something (suggestion): Maybe it should be possible that expedition ships can load additional wares and workers - because they have space for that. This could be achieved by new buttons at the ports. (The ship should then be able to wait at the port until it's finished)

So one can also load some soldiers and additional wares to build up a first sentry.

Wouldn't that be good? So why are you against it?

That was misunderstanding, i am not against this. In contrary i would vote for it face-smile.png

einstein13 wrote:

New starting conditions can be a big step forward to real fun! face-smile.png

But it needs some changes:

  1. Map designer should set that this starting conditions should be possible (not every map is good for this starting position)
  2. Also setting some points where the ships should be deployed, could be a good choice (something like starting point for players, but multiple of them should be possible).

Good point.

  1. What about adding a ship with some basic tools, wares and some warriors?

Making expeditions configurable would be a prerequisite face-smile.png


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2018-10-31, 17:33

seems a good idea. Only problem I can see, it's too random. you pick the right direction, you are fine, you pick wrong, you lose one hour before you can settle anything, or you get a small island without resources. Unless you know in advance where you want to go, in which case you may as well have the headquarter already built


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einstein13
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Posted at: 2018-10-31, 19:58

That is why I proposed "fixed starting points" defined by map designer. Then randomization is smaller and probably only player's choice of direction is a matter of result. Also "small island" can be well known by going around the land. But I can see one disadvantage to people players: they don't have knowledge about the map, while AI has. So computer player will go to probably best spots around it and make there a colony, but since AI is not perfect, it should be rather a challenge than a problem face-smile.png .


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2018-11-01, 10:23

king_of_nowhere wrote:

seems a good idea. Only problem I can see, it's too random. you pick the right direction, you are fine, you pick wrong, you lose one hour before you can settle anything, or you get a small island without resources. Unless you know in advance where you want to go, in which case you may as well have the headquarter already built

This might be mitigated somewhat by having lots of port spaces


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