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Topic: B21 Empire Mines Beer/Wine Consumption

king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2018-09-12, 13:19

einstein13 wrote:

that combo was so tight

This is clue here. From my perspective, you don't have to think about is as imbalance, because 90% of players can't think about it as a possibility and 50% of the rest will never try of doing so. face-wink.png If you want to check balance more mathematical way, just make a statistics with 200+ games between different players (and their preferences). Or make 100+ games of AI, which should be a bit the same level of "intelligence" between all tribes.

I disagree with the cconcept. Balance has to apply to the highest level of play. If a tribe is more difficult to play to full effect, it means just that, it's difficult. It must not be made stronger to compensate for its difficulty. If you take a game like league of legends, some heroes are easy to use, some are very difficult, but they try to balance them for when they are used optimally.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2018-09-12, 20:14

king_of_nowhere wrote:

This change would mean empire would no longer need to make vineyards and winery early. they are very marble-expensive buildings, so it would be a nice boon to empire early game. I say, let's save this change for a time when we feel we want to buff empire.

Yep

As for balance, I'm not so sure tribes are balanced. Atlanteans can make a soldier with full attack promotion in 35 minutes, as demonstrated by worldsavior in his match with me in the latest tournament. Do other tribes also have similar chances?

I think so - except for Frisians. (Remember that I skipped shields in that match, which isn't the best idea anymore after build19 )

ypopezios wrote:

einstein13 wrote:

I am also against changing that, even if I had (sometimes) problems with remembering about brewery. Here you can tell that I am conservative face-wink.png (hello @ypopezios)

In a secret mod of Widelands there is an over-imbalanced tribe called widelanders, which has a building called idea-mine, where miners drink an intoxicant ware called conservatism, produced in a building called forum. Idea-mines get exhausted very quickly, and after that point they can extract ideas only randomly, about once during a release-circle...

face-grin.png Thanks for making me laugh - I haven't been amused that much in this forum for a long time.

Then there is another secret mod, where all types of mines are able to operate with all types of drinks, with the various combinations varying in their productivity. Instead of a building (e.g. mine) accepting as input a specific ware, it accepts a specific type of ware (e.g. food, drink, metal etc.) That mod makes Widelands a much deeper game, while improving its logic and consistency.

Do you have got such a mod?

So for example empire mines can use beer or wine?

king_of_nowhere wrote:

einstein13 wrote:

that combo was so tight

This is clue here. From my perspective, you don't have to think about is as imbalance, because 90% of players can't think about it as a possibility and 50% of the rest will never try of doing so. face-wink.png If you want to check balance more mathematical way, just make a statistics with 200+ games between different players (and their preferences). Or make 100+ games of AI, which should be a bit the same level of "intelligence" between all tribes.

I disagree with the cconcept. Balance has to apply to the highest level of play. If a tribe is more difficult to play to full effect, it means just that, it's difficult. It must not be made stronger to compensate for its difficulty. If you take a game like league of legends, some heroes are easy to use, some are very difficult, but they try to balance them for when they are used optimally.

+1

The AI is rather useless for balance research - it's just too dumb.


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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ypopezios
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Joined: 2018-04-20, 00:22
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Posted at: 2018-09-13, 08:07

ypopezios wrote:

Then there is another secret mod, where all types of mines are able to operate with all types of drinks, with the various combinations varying in their productivity. Instead of a building (e.g. mine) accepting as input a specific ware, it accepts a specific type of ware (e.g. food, drink, metal etc.) That mod makes Widelands a much deeper game, while improving its logic and consistency.

then

WorldSavior wrote:

Do you have got such a mod?

Not yet.

WorldSavior wrote:

So for example empire mines can use beer or wine?

Yes, all empire mines can use both beer and wine, but iron and coal mines operate better with beer, while marble and gold mines operate better with wine.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2018-09-13, 16:55

ypopezios wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

So for example empire mines can use beer or wine?

Yes, all empire mines can use both beer and wine, but iron and coal mines operate better with beer, while marble and gold mines operate better with wine.

This has some advantages, but the disadvantage would be the demand for more micromanaging - because it could be clever to tell all marble/gold mines to store no beer and to tell all coal/iron mines to store no wine.


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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