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Topic: B20

hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 479
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2018-08-04, 22:32

teppo wrote:

I can't agree they don't need to be balanced at all. It wouldn't matter if widelands was just aimed to be a single player game. However it is not.

This allows people of unequal skill levels to play against each other. Only the bravest pick a handicapped tribe.

Frisians will never be an easy tribe, cause they have far the most complex economy. But at the hand of an experienced player they should be able to have a comparable chance to win on most of the maps. So from my point of view it is not about reducing difficulty it is about equalizing the outcome of a well played but still very difficult economy.
So please don't get me wrong I do not want to make the frisians easy. I just want to give them an almost equal chance in multiplayer. However they will need more space than other tribes in any case for example.
All this is done to make them a worthy choice for every experienced player (and not only for very few players) in multiplayer


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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 2768
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Location: RenderedRect
Posted at: 2018-08-05, 11:08

teppo wrote:

kaputtnik wrote:

Every help is welcome and also the developers who spend their work only a short time doing a great job.

Glad to hear.. Irregulars put some additional burden to regulars, as we always ask stupid questions and never remember how the bunnybot and other stuff works.

Your recent fixes were a great help though, the admin overhead was pretty small. I often spend time doing admin or explaining stuff to new developers while waiting for the compiler, so usually the features and fixes gained outweigh the time spent on helping for me face-smile.png

The current status of widelands has some great improvements, so it's time to do a release face-smile.png

Oh, and Smugglers desyncs in B19. Better to ensure that the build that goes into Debian Buster (freeze early next year) does not have it anymore face-wink.png

I have not been able to crack that one so far - would you like to take a look?

Here are the bugs I'd like to see fixed for Build 20: https://launchpad.net/widelands/+milestone/build20-rc1

Maybe somebody else should have a look at the list to see if anything else can get rescheduled for Build 21.


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teppo
Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
Posts: 316
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Posted at: 2018-08-05, 13:57

GunChleoc wrote:

Oh, and Smugglers desyncs in B19. Better to ensure that the build that goes into Debian Buster (freeze early next year) does not have it anymore face-wink.png

I have not been able to crack that one so far - would you like to take a look?

No time to learn the skills needed to debug that one right now. Sorry.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 951
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Location: GER
Posted at: 2018-08-05, 19:07

By the way: Replays of Collector matches are still broken (because of status messages probably).

hessenfarmer wrote:

I can't agree they don't need to be balanced at all. It wouldn't matter if widelands was just aimed to be a single player game. However it is not. And there already went so much work into them they should be a full member of frisian tribes which means they need to be competitive in multiplayer. That definitly does not mean they need to be equal in every aspect to the other tribes and sure they aren't. However they need to be strong enough to survive the beginning and fast enough to compete with the other tribes and therefore timing is essential as well as ressources needed to build up the environment. in Multiplayer one of the measures is how fast could you get a fully trained soldier? of course this is not the only criteria for balance but especially in this criterion frisians are still disadvanteged.

+1

teppo wrote:

Tinker wrote:

From my viewpoint shorter times between builds is better, it attracts more interest from players and new developers. This brings more ideas and more testing which are both good.

During feature freeze one needs to do uninteresting work, like fixing old important bugs, to make a version that works. New features are more fun.

In my opinion once a year would be okay, twice a year already a bit extreme.

Frisians are, in my opinion, not experimental just different to play. Balancing them to make the exactly the same as other tribes is counter productive.

Why should the tribes be perfectly balanced?

Maybe they don't have to be perfectly balanced, but just balanced. If they are not balanced, some tribes don't make that much sense.

We do not have difficulty levels..

Starting conditions and maps can bring a kind of difficulty...

If the tribes would be more off balance, the only obvious drawback would be that everybody picks the same tribe in a tournament (if allowed to pick).

And that would be really boring. And not only in tournaments, but also in other matches - at least if one wants to win.

EDIT from here on

hessenfarmer wrote:

I can't agree they don't need to be balanced at all. It wouldn't matter if widelands was just aimed to be a single player game. However it is not.

This allows people of unequal skill levels to play against each other. Only the bravest pick a handicapped tribe.

They can also play against each other with different starting conditions / positions

You sound like Frisians would be time wasted, if they are more difficult to play with. I do not see it that way, but take that seriously especially if Nordfriese joins your argument.

I also think that it would be a waste of potential if the Frisians stay underpowered.

hessenfarmer wrote:

So please don't get me wrong I do not want to make the frisians easy. I just want to give them an almost equal chance in multiplayer. However they will need more space than other tribes in any case for example.

Would they be balanced in that case? face-wink.png


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2018-08-06, 11:56

The player skill should be in managing the economy because it's more complicated, and not in a built-in disadvantage for the tribe. So, I think the more balanced the tribes are, the better.


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