Topic: Production Time

stonerl wrote:

Sorry I was wrong about the 1 Unit construction site:

It is indeed possible to force a 1 unit or 2 unit construction site. But on its own the shipwright would never do this if there wouldn't be any roads.

Interesting...

No, the distance is 5 units.

Sorry to be pedantic, but the distance for the upper shipyard is 3. Have a look at the map without buildings:

The distance between 2 flags is 1 unit isn't it?

No, the distance between 2 flags is always at least 2 units...

The black line I drew was the way the shipwright was walking.

But this is in this direction equivalent to distance, isn't it?

He walks from the 2nd left flag to the 5th left one. I can give you the map if you want to test it yourself.

I'm still convinced that I understand most parts of the geometry of Widelands

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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I'm sorry if I annoy anybody, but I had to make some drawings to understand the problem. Since I'm not a programmer myself I cannot look in the code and spot every detail but I think I understand how and why this works currently.

As far as I understand it, tiles consist of an hexagon with a seventh knot in the middle:

The distance from evry knot to its neighbor is 1 vector. The problem is how roads work. Although the distance from A to E is 1, it can only be reached using the auxiliary knot G (or F). So that distance increases from one to two. On the horizontal axes every neighbor can be reached within 1 vector. But on the vertical axis two are needed.

Back to the problem with the shipyard. The shipyard's flag is knot B. Since the minimum distance under normal circumstances is 3 knots, the closest knot for the construction site would be O. Since roads cannot be constructed between neighbors in the vertical axes, and the workers can only walk on paths that can be converted into roads, the worker has to use the auxiliary knots C and J.

Knot O is indeed a 3-way-hop and the closest distance. But not the shortest to reach by roads. This would be J.

Is this correct?

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@hessenfarmer: thank you for the clarification.

@WorldSavior: I beg you pardon for the misunderstanding.

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stonerl wrote:

No, the distance between 2 flags is always at least 2 units...

Sorry, I meant the yellow flags. When nothing is build. Not the one on the roads.

No need to be sorry. The distance between two yellow flags on the north-south-axis is at least 2, it cannot be 1.

I'm still convinced that I understand most parts of the geometry of Widelands

I don't question this at all.

I didn't want to say that you question it, I just wanted to express that I'm rather sure about the issue.

But I stopped the time with a stopwatch, many times. The worker from the north shipyard took 5.4 seconds to walk from the flag to the construction side. In contrast the one on from the west shipyard took 9 seconds. Please have a look at this video:

The the worker from the west has a lead of almost 14 seconds. After the second build-phase they are equal.

The first starts at 58 seconds and the second at 2:29minutes. (I had to crop the video, since a notification popped in...)

In the video, there are two different distances: 3 and 5.

stonerl wrote:

I'm sorry if I annoy anybody, but I had to make some drawings to understand the problem. Since I'm not a programmer myself I cannot look in the code and spot every detail but I think I understand how and why this works currently.

As far as I understand it, tiles consist of an hexagon with a seventh knot in the middle:

The distance from evry knot to its neighbor is 1 vector. The problem is how roads work. Although the distance from A to B is 1, it can only be reached using the auxiliary knot G (or F).

No? A road can go from A directly to B. You mean E instead of B.

So that distance increases from one to two. On the horizontal axes every neighbor can be reached within 1 vector. But on the vertical axis two are needed.

Back to the problem with the shipyard. The shipyard's flag is knot B. Since the minimum distance under normal circumstances is 3 knots, the closest knot for the construction site would be O.

No, J.

Since roads cannot be constructed between neighbors in the vertical axes, and the workers can only walk on paths that can be converted into roads, the worker has to use the auxiliary knots C and J.

Knot O is indeed a 3-way-hop and the closest distance. But not the shortest to reach by roads. This would be J.

Is this correct?

Not completely. distance(B,O) is not 3, but 5.

Maybe this helps you: A sentry has a conquer radius of 6. It conquers every field within a radius of 6.

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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@stonerl we all had to get this hex-shaped map know first. It is much better when you calculate distances, because all of them are integer numbers. But this system is not trivial one and contains some tricks . Fortunately it can be transformed to square one with special conditions. And transformation contains pure math function, so you don't need to be IT specialist . But going to be human-friendly, what you posted above is enough to catch the point of hex/triangle map.

einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

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