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Topic: Ferries

GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2018-08-13, 10:25

Or we could allow the map designer to set the limit for every map individually.

That. We can start by hard-coding it into logic/map.h, and then take the customization and UI from there.


Busy indexing nil values

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dreieck
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Joined: 2018-08-25, 11:48
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Posted at: 2018-08-25, 12:49

Nordfriese wrote:

I´m planning to implement transport ferries.

A ferry is a kind of ship that travels along a predefined waterway. A waterway is like a road that connects two flags which both have to stand on the coast. The player needs to own both end points and all the space between to build a waterway. The ferry can carry one ware or one worker (plus the imaginary carrier that rows it).

I like the idea, I just wanted to suggest this, too.

I pretty much liked the rowing boats especially in return to the roots (the Open Source Settlers II engine with bugfixes) -- because there was an option to make those waterways as long as you like (as long as you own all the territory they go along). I even liked just watching them.

Obviously, having ferries can be a huge advantage that will break design concepts of some maps, so it first needs to be decided how to keep this problem small.

One could make it a selectable option in the game settings, than players can choose if they want to enable them or not, depending on the map design.

  • Another option would be to demand that the flags between which the player wants to build a waterway already need to be in the same economy. That way, waterways could only be used as shortcuts, never to reach unaccessible territory. This is the option I prefer.

Transporting only wares but not people already imposes the need to have both ends linked by some other way (roads or ports).


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dreieck
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Posted at: 2018-08-25, 13:06

Nordfriese wrote:

It is working!

More or less.

Great :-).

  • 3) reworking flags, roads and buildings so they have one economy only for wares and one economy only for workers, and both function independent from each other. I guess this is doable – but I´d like to have ferries ready in build 21… [...] I could work with (3) if it is really really really necessary…

Would be my favourite, too.

Maybe this would become handy later on also for other cases?


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2018-09-01, 16:01

I fixed all crashes I ran into so far, so this branch is actually playable now.
bzr branch lp:~widelands-dev/widelands/ferry
(No appveyor builds sadly because it´s still broken.)

Waterways can be built between any flags. No economy limits.

Two economies connected by waterways only currently are now considered one and the same economy; if one part requests a worker that exists only in the other part, the console output is spammed with warnings but the game behaves as it should.

To enable waterways on a map, add the key waterway_max_length to the global section of the map´s port_spaces file. Otherwise, waterways are disabled. There´s no editor GUI for that yet.

Known remaining issues:

  • Sending of ferries to waterways does not always work properly after loading a saved game

  • This graphical bug is seen very often

  • Waterwaybuilding overlays sometimes show unreachable fields

I´d appreciate testing and more bug reports!


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2018-11-29, 12:26

The branch is in review now, all known bugs are squashed. I´d still appreciate testing and more bug reports face-wink.png

It should be decided which official maps get waterways enabled, and with what length limit. I would suggest:

  • Golden Peninsula - 4

  • Islands at War - 6

  • Lake of Tranquility - 13

  • Last Bastion - 5

  • The Far North - 7

  • Pass through the Mountains - 10

  • Twin Lagoons - 10

  • Volcanic Winter - 4

  • Fellowships - 6

  • Finnish Lakes - 8

  • Impact - 6

  • Archipelago Sea - 3

  • Calvisson - 5

  • Four Castles - 8

  • Rendezvous - 20

  • River Explorers - 16

  • The Long Way - 14

  • Twinkling Waves - 7

  • Kings & Queens - 20

  • Riverlands - 4

  • Ice Wars - 12

  • Sun of Fire - 14

  • The Nile - 10

(Keep in mind that ferries transport no workers, so a waterway is only useful to connect two shores if you can already reach both ends by land and/or ships.)

Also, the cost for ferries and ferry yards should be discussed. The ferry yard currently costs the same as the shipyard for all tribes. A ferry is 3 logs.


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einstein13
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Posted at: 2018-11-30, 14:24

From a perspective of maps designer: the distances here can be useful to join different economies on different islands. Will it work like that? (I can't remember what was the solution in the discussion above). So my maps:

  • Ice Wars - The distance can be long enough to join small islands and main continent
  • The Nile - The distance can be long enough to join two shores at some points

It may be good idea to redesign a bit the maps? Also I have to play and test a bit face-smile.png

And the distances for the rest of the maps: Max distance of 20 (f.e. Kings & Queens) is much too high! It is not useful (very low capacity) and probably it changes map play too much. But I have to test it to be sure! face-wink.png


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calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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Tibor
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Posted at: 2018-11-30, 14:44

einstein13 wrote:

From a perspective of maps designer: the distances here can be useful to join different economies on different islands. Will it work like that?

As ferry can transport only wares, such interconnection will be half-functional. You will create single economy for wares, but both territories will stay separate economy for workers.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2018-11-30, 14:53
  • Ice Wars - The distance can be long enough to join small islands and main continent

  • The Nile - The distance can be long enough to join two shores at some points

I think that´s how I decided those numbers

Max distance of 20 (f.e. Kings & Queens) is much too high! It is not useful (very low capacity)

You can also build roads with a length of 100, so that´s not a reason not to allow it face-wink.png

and probably it changes map play too much. But I have to test it to be sure!

Lots of testing is certainly necessary face-smile.png The rework of the Economy concept can backfire everywhere and might be introducing dozens of new bugs…


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einstein13
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Posted at: 2018-11-30, 16:32

Tibor wrote:

As ferry can transport only wares, such interconnection will be half-functional. You will create single economy for wares, but both territories will stay separate economy for workers.

Yes, I know that it is half-functional. face-smile.png But most of times you don't need people transportation.

Nordfriese wrote:

I think that´s how I decided those numbers

Good! face-smile.png But I will test that anyway face-wink.png

Nordfriese wrote:

You can also build roads with a length of 100, so that´s not a reason not to allow it face-wink.png

I have never seen the roads with such a length. 99.9% of human player roads will be 2 or 3 units length. But probably ferries will change a bit this numbers face-grin.png

And about testing: is this branch already merged? Can I see Appveyor or Tino's build for that?


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calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2018-11-30, 16:39

As ferry can transport only wares, such interconnection will be half-functional. You will create single economy for wares, but both territories will stay separate economy for workers.

Yes, I know that it is half-functional. face-smile.png But most of times you don't need people transportation.

This won´t break map concepts, because ferries won´t allow you to reach inaccessible territory (you could supply constructionsites there but no builder can arrive…). They are only a shortcut in existing economies.

And about testing: is this branch already merged? Can I see Appveyor or Tino's build for that?

This certainly won´t make it into build 20, as it´s already feature freeze, but I´m hoping to get this merged soon after b20 is out.

Latest appveyor build is here

Edited: 2018-12-01, 17:18
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