Topic: Frisian Balancing

My usual starting wares for Frisians are -

  wares = {
     log = 3,
     granite = 4,
     thatch_reed = 3,
     brick = 10,
     clay = 3,
     coal = 3,
     water = 2,
     hunting_spear = 1,
     fire_tongs = 1,
     bread_paddle = 1,
     kitchen_tools = 1
  },

They get an addition log or granite on maps with no trees or stones in their initial area and I have played them on every map from almost all starting positions with few problems. I can start recruiting soldiers in about 2 hours, as I need over 70 fur to get a seamstress promoted it can take two more hours to start producing upgraded fur clothes, but it usually takes 3 hours to start producing iron anyway.

Frisians can operate quite ell with much reduced starting wares, I see no need to give them more.

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hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

I've looked at the changes and I didn't see a mistake in the code. How much playtesting would be required?

I have tested this branch while trying to figure out my opinion on hunters and farm working area. I would say testing it until you are sure it is ok to go in.

Every detail? Or is it sufficient if the game never crashes and I don't discover some obvious mistakes when I use every building?

hessenfarmer wrote:

1. The radius is not necesarily slowing down the farm. on the contrary it offers possibilities to speed the walking distances up (by blocking the spots behind the farm, cause the waorker needs to walk around the whole farm building to reach that place).

So one has to micromanage the farms and this is still a disadvantage

1. On archipielago sea on the contrary fur was the bottleneck for training soldiers as barley is hard to produce. Unfortunately it takes some time until some game is found. but then a hunter really helps to get a slow soldier production running.

Isn't that map completely free of animals? So you had luck that sloppy barbarians were around.

b. fiddling with hunter numbers and seamstress numbers - increase fur consumption from 2 to 3 per garment while producing a fur every 2nd cycle this will change the relation so that in the end less fur gets piled while a good kickstart could be provided as well.

3 fur per garment is over the top imho.

And it would also be not good if the hunters would be even more fur-efficient because of map-dependance and so on.

c. increase starting condition amount of fur

I don't know if we should do that...

d. decrease experience level for the seamstress

That sounds good. How much is right now needed? 14? Barbarian brewers need only 10 and their smiths 12.

e. any combination of that

I would prefer b. or any combination with b. (the numbers are just a proposal and can be discussed to find the best ratio. Again any opinions how to solve that issue?

I would vote for d only

The things that have to be done after the mines-worldsavior branch is in are therefore: 3. increase farm radius to 3 if no objections

My objections are that there would be some need of micromanaging farms

hessenfarmer wrote:

If no further objections raised I'll do it instantaneously after the mines-worldsavior branch has been merged. @Worldsavior have you tested it already?

Not during the last days

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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WorldSavior wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

I've looked at the changes and I didn't see a mistake in the code. How much playtesting would be required?

I have tested this branch while trying to figure out my opinion on hunters and farm working area. I would say testing it until you are sure it is ok to go in.

Every detail? Or is it sufficient if the game never crashes and I don't discover some obvious mistakes when I use every building?

I believe that this is your very own decision, how much confidence do you need to give it a go.

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WorldSavior wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote: Time matters for the early frisians as this is the period when they still have the biggest disadvantage.

I don't agree - I think that Frisians are in the early game better playable than in the mid/late-game.

Can you explain this somewhat further. What is your Definition of early game. Sorry I can't follow you.

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Hi again, As the mines branch is in and I have fixed 2 other issues for b20, I have time now to make another attempt in improving frisians balance.
@WorldSavior: thanks for the explanation. Now I understand. So for me it seems to be ok to focus further on giving them better chance to train theit soldiers more quickly.

so these are the changes I am going to implement in a first run:
1. increase the farm radius (in fact this won't change the production time much as long as enough spac is available, and the farm must be placed somewhat erroneous to really increase the average walking distance. Effect of decreased walking time is low though.) Perhaps this can be reduced again if we will have moveable working areas in the future.
2. reduce helmet cost - we already agreed on this.
3. resolving the fur issue. Here I have another idea. If we let the sewing_room produce studded_fur_garments directly we could reduce the fur production of the hunter to possibly every 4th or 5th cycle which is just a small boost on maps with a lot of game then. (BTW: anybody looked at my calculation about the necessary hunters to support a sewing room? )

How do think about this ? By this solution we don't need to change the expereince level, we don't need any addtional starting wares, and we are getting the first garments much faster. Another solution delivering the same effect would be to have a master_seamstress in the starting conditions. What about that?

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