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Topic: concentric circles win??

Tinker
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Joined: 2014-09-12, 10:53
Posts: 160
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At home in WL-forums
Location: DDR
Posted at: 2018-01-12, 10:47

I think the micro management of soldiers is the most difficult for new players. The initially difficult concepts of upgrading workers and buildings soon becomes almost trivial in comparison with training soldiers and getting them to the front line. I think most players give up trying and leave the soldiers to sort it out themselves, at least for a few months if not forever. It is only when trying to win some more technical maps like this one that people start studying how to get the military better controlled.

I think there should be a better way of managing soldiers, which would also improve AI players, but I am not sure how to do this without getting very complicated. Just have a switch to allow/force training site to prefer training partially upgraded soldiers might be a help that is fairly easy to impliment.


The only way to prevent a mass extinction event is to remove homo sapiens, or stupiditus, from the planet. It may be to late for this final solution though.

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EgyLynx
Joined: 2010-08-22, 08:51
Posts: 34
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2018-01-14, 19:52

Tinker wrote:

I think there should be a better way of managing soldiers, which would also improve AI players, but I am not sure how to do this without getting very complicated. Just have a switch to allow/force training site to prefer training partially upgraded soldiers might be a help that is fairly easy to impliment.

Yeah face-confused.png . Now it is complicated face-sad.png .


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LeightonMan
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Joined: 2017-05-19, 15:17
Posts: 34
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2018-01-15, 11:02

I have been playing this map for about a month now and I still haven't got the hang of soldier management!! The two things, I think, that would help me most would be the ability to see where promoted soldiers are without clicking on individual buildings and, more importantly, to be able to mark buildings as "front line". I imagine this would mark the front line as "prefer heroes" and automatically mark all other buildings as "prefer rookies". Is this easy to implement? In the past, on other maps, I have built large numbers of military buildings and, after hours of trying to expand my territory with only rookies, I have discovered a building near the headquarters, full of promoted soldiers! When I dismantle that building, instead of going to where they are needed, the soldiers distribute themselves, apparently randomly, amongst the other buildings nearby. Very frustrating!

I've just been defeated part way round the third ring so I'm getting better face-smile.png


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1076
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One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2018-01-15, 23:04

Of course the micromanagement is most difficult. Only a handful of players mastered it. but it makes such a huge difference, especially in early game.

the challenge maps are made so that a pro must use every trick he knows and even then it will be difficult. that's because once you mastered all the tricks, every other map - yes, even a regular 1v7 - is so easy it's boring.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 626
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Location: Saxony, GER
Posted at: 2018-01-16, 00:04

Tinker wrote:

I think there should be a better way of managing soldiers, which would also improve AI players, but I am not sure how to do this without getting very complicated. Just have a switch to allow/force training site to prefer training partially upgraded soldiers might be a help that is fairly easy to impliment.

It would also be possible to give the trainers a better strategy. But I'm not sure if those improvements are really necessary

LeightonMan wrote:

I have been playing this map for about a month now and I still haven't got the hang of soldier management!! The two things, I think, that would help me most would be the ability to see where promoted soldiers are without clicking on individual buildings ...

Is it really so hard to know where they are? If you prefer heroes only at the front and if you send all your soldiers to a small number of warehouses, it happens that your promoted soldiers go there face-wink.png

In the past, on other maps, I have built large numbers of military buildings and, after hours of trying to expand my territory with only rookies, I have discovered a building near the headquarters, full of promoted soldiers! When I dismantle that building, instead of going to where they are needed, the soldiers distribute themselves, apparently randomly, amongst the other buildings nearby. Very frustrating!

But you can make sure that they don't go to buildings nearby, but somewhere else. Still frustrating?

king_of_nowhere wrote:

the challenge maps are made so that a pro must use every trick he knows and even then it will be difficult. that's because once you mastered all the tricks, every other map - yes, even a regular 1v7 - is so easy it's boring.

Also if the AIs take trading outposts? And then an 1vs15? face-wink.png


*insert phrase about the necessity of saving the world here*

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Tinker
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Joined: 2014-09-12, 10:53
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Posted at: 2018-01-16, 10:23

@LeightonMan

I see immediately one problem of marking a building as front line which sets all others to prefer rookies, what if you are threatened on two or more fronts? Or you are attacking on two fronts? The existing Hero/Rookie selector works better, even if Hero is the incorrect name for a trained soldier.


The only way to prevent a mass extinction event is to remove homo sapiens, or stupiditus, from the planet. It may be to late for this final solution though.

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teppo
Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
Posts: 289
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Posted at: 2018-01-16, 20:49

Tinker wrote:

@LeightonMan

..even if Hero is the incorrect name for a trained soldier.

There are widelands to English and widelands to American translations..


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LeightonMan
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Joined: 2017-05-19, 15:17
Posts: 34
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2018-01-18, 12:59

Tinker wrote:

@LeightonMan

I see immediately one problem of marking a building as front line which sets all others to prefer rookies, what if you are threatened on two or more fronts? Or you are attacking on two fronts? The existing Hero/Rookie selector works better, even if Hero is the incorrect name for a trained soldier.

You are, of course, quite correct. I was thinking of an additional option rather than a replacement for the present system which works quite well. It has taken me hours of playing to get to the point where I can mostly send soldiers where I want them and I was trying to think of something that would have made soldiers easier to control whilst I was learning.

As a native UK English speaker, I feel that Hero is not quite the right word to use but I have been unable to find anything better! When the term is used as the opposite of Rookie there can be no doubt as to the meaning though Hero more usually means someone who is much admired and/or decorated rather than highly trained. The best alternative I can find is "Commando", but that's not quite right either.


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Tinker
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Joined: 2014-09-12, 10:53
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Posted at: 2018-01-19, 10:50

Without hijacking this thread to much, the correct British term for a trained soldier is soldier, an untrained soldier is a recruit. Rookie is mainly a US baseball term although there are some military references to rookies in the 19th century where the new trainee soldiers were compare to chess pieces. A trained and battle experienced soldier is a veteran and one who has an outstanding military record of achievement is a hero.

The WL terms of hero and rookie, while incorrect English, are easier for most people to understand, it is mainly a problem for language pedants like me.


The only way to prevent a mass extinction event is to remove homo sapiens, or stupiditus, from the planet. It may be to late for this final solution though.

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teppo
Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
Posts: 289
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Posted at: 2018-01-19, 18:25

Tinker wrote:

The WL terms of hero and rookie, while incorrect English, are easier for most people to understand, it is mainly a problem for language pedants like me.

I have no doubt believing that. However, if those are fixed into game, translations get broken, which annoys people working on the translations. Should the language of Widelands be correct English, or is it enough if the English translation is correct?


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