Topic: Geologist search behavior
einstein13 |
Posted at: 2017-12-18, 22:53
For me changing default amount of water probability can be done, but not in a such radical way. 60 -> 30% should be enough. Maybe 20% is acceptable too. But 10% is way too little! But if we change those numbers, I would like to see even deeper well, which will cost lots, but it will have 80-90% of efficiency. Getting rid of water as a manual resource is a bad idea. Sometimes map creators change the default settings to prepare better map. And about main topic: I don't like idea of changing geologists to "total random". I would rather see fix of current behaviour: if the flag is on mountain and non-mountain terrain, the geologist will look for ores in both places. I old Settlers 2 I remember that I was sending geologists into mountains and they were looking for water. That was annoying. In the Widelands I don't see the problem any more. But annoying thing is that if I have very small mountains, I can't send geologists there (the only place for flag is with resources). einstein13 |
Tibor |
Posted at: 2017-12-18, 23:03
What about changing amount of water to "water yield" that would be basically probability that water will be mined on the field? And this water yield would be defined per terrain, or calculated from all adjacent triangles (depending on where water mining takes place exactly) ... So map creator would have no control and no need to deal with water... EDIT: and geologist would just show field where expected water yield is > 50 % (or similar value) Edited: 2017-12-18, 23:13
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teppo |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 06:11
Sounds like an option.
Why? The probability is only used after the well has exhausted. This is not even too far from the real-life behavior. Top Quote |
Tibor |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 07:08
I mean there would be no water as a resource, so no exhaustion of it... This is what current 60% is Top Quote |
kaputtnik Topic Opener |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 09:30
A map designer should have the possibility to make an area of the map dry (no water) without the need to script that, imho. The topics question seems to be answered for now: A geologist should search only mountains for ore, also the flag where he is send to is on non mountain area. The thing with Water is quite complicated and i guess changing this will get a big change, what ever a solution looks like. Fight simulator for Widelands: |
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 10:30
currently it makes no difference: the wells will consume the little water that is within their working radius (at default water distribution (4) this is in my opinion 28 water (radius 1 means 7 spots times 4) ) at a rate of 100%. After that they are producing 65% which doesn't make it necessary to search for water. If we change the Probability if exhausted value to let's say 20 % we should increase the working radius to e.g. 3 which means you have 37 times 4 =148 Water at ratio of 100 % before falling back to 20% productivity. With the concept of deep well you can increase this to perhaps radius 5 which means another 60 times 4 = 240 water at 100%. In this case you just have to be aware to not place the wells to adjacent which is the same in reality. As long as there is the small default resource of water available this should work on the majority of the maps available with little effort to implement. By this mechanism the map designer really could make better maps and for the player it may be worth searching for a good spot for a well. Top Quote |
hessenfarmer |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 10:39
Yes I fully support this, cause scripting only works in scenario mode and the map should work in normal win condition mode in the way the designer had in mind.
As far as I understood he should search all spots in his working radius if the spot is mountain he should search for ore if it is other he should search for water. This is a +1 from my side.
As I outlined in my previous post it shouldn't be that complicates as it can be implemented more realistic by just changing the init.lua of the wells. Perhaps I will try this if I have some spare time. Only thing is if to not override the settings of the map creator by default amount. Edited: 2017-12-19, 10:45
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GunChleoc |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 10:57
The default amount of water already depends on the terrain type - see the editor help for terrains.
+1 - if 1 of the 6 terrains adjacent to the flag is a mountain, search for mountain resources. Busy indexing nil values Top Quote |
kaputtnik Topic Opener |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 11:41
Ah, i just found another bug which causes maybe some misunderstanding (at least for me): The resource markers the geologist set do either shows 'no Water' or 'Many Water'. There is no distinction between "low water" and "many Water" like there is for ore. So currently a player can't see the differences which relates to the default amount of water on terrains.
Yeah, +1 Edited: 2017-12-19, 11:42
Fight simulator for Widelands: |
WorldSavior |
Posted at: 2017-12-19, 16:41
So some of you would like to annoy everyone via changing the game a lot by making wells very bad. But why at all? Currently, water in the ground can make wells 50% faster, isn't that nice enough? Don't forget that wells will trigger annoying messages "no water found" if their productivity is below 33%. As the bug that messages of this kind cannot be stopped isn't fixed yet, this could lead to tons of message spam. tosz once had some nice arguments, and I agree with him/her there:
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Why should one change the game that much?
It's very nice to see you here again, but I think it would be a change which is too big
Why? One is already forced to find iron ore, gold ore and mostly also coal. That's already a lot, so it's good that one doesn't have to search for water.
That's also a big change Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote |