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Topic: Enhanced farms

einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 915
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Location: Poland
Posted at: 2017-12-10, 19:10

@GunCheloc: I understand "fertility" here as probability of growing best-choice tree on the terrain. Maybe fruitfulness would be better here? (Not to duplicate the name.)

This idea would solve the problem of editors and players.


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2017-12-11, 07:27

We have at "probability to grow", for each tree type - have you had a look at the tree and terrains rankings in the editor help? This is the sort of data that we would show the user, only as tooltips.


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einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
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Posted at: 2017-12-11, 10:22

GunChleoc wrote:

We have at "probability to grow", for each tree type - have you had a look at the tree and terrains rankings in the editor help? This is the sort of data that we would show the user, only as tooltips.

Yes, I know the tool well and it is OK in the editor. But after leaving the editor, you don't know what terrain is good enough for growing the trees. Also you don't know anything about mix of terrains.


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2017-12-11, 19:07

kaputtnik wrote:

I am also not a fan of this idea... but on the other site it's disturbing if crops can grow on barren terrains, eg. desert terrains.

It doesn't disturb me, I rather like that it doesn't cause more complications, as foresters are already so complicated

einstein13 wrote:

kaputtnik wrote:

@WorldSavior: for atlanteans it is possible to "think" that their farms can be enhanced like tower -> big tower. And if you don't want to expand the farm, you can build enhanced farm at once (like outpost and barrier in Empire).

Yes, but maybe your ideas here would damage the game.... They could be used for a new tribe though...


*insert phrase about the necessity of saving the world here*

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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2017-12-12, 11:18

Some time ago when discussing the terrain affinities for trees i had a similar idea like einstein13 by using water as the marker for fertility. The amount of water in combination with a value of 'possibility to grow for type of [crops|trees]' for a specific type of terrain decides which tree|crop will grow there.

This means for a map maker:

  • He can individual 'mark' an area of the map as very fertile, by placing water on it
  • If he don't do so, default amount of water is used and all areas will not be 'very' fertile, giving a medium or small harvest
  • Placing water resource activates an overlay where the values of 'possibility to grow' for each terrain is displayed. This may be result in a complicated overlay, when one type of terrain have many values for 'possibility to grow', e.g. 'wheat, corn, vine, berry_1, berry_2'
  • Placing trees activates the 'tree overlay' similar to the previous point

For a player:

  • The geologist get more importance, because he mustn't be send only to mountains. If a player wants to get a good harvest he has to send the geologist to a flag on plain terrain.
  • The resource markers a geologist places, shows which type of crop will grow here, just like with ore-resources. Such markers for crops may contain only some kind of a 'global' sign, because it will not be possible to show many crops on such a small sign. A detailed explanation which crop grow well on this sign could be shown in the notification message. Maybe something like "A geologist found fertile ground for: Wheat and Corn".

Thinking of an already complicated terrain 'forrested mountain':
A Geologist finds ore for coal and fertile ground for trees. He may place (just a mockup of two shields) and the notification message says: "A Geologist found Coal and fertile ground for Trees"


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einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
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Posted at: 2017-12-12, 14:48

My idea doesn't bring any change between any types of crops. I is a bit simpler than your idea, kaputtnik. But in general I like your idea face-smile.png . Unfortunately it is not suitable for widelands now face-sad.png .

Adding geologist another job is a good practice. With my idea, the geologist will show where to put foresters to get best results of wood production.

@WorldSavior: if you think that enhanced farms for Atlanteans would damage the game, pick another solution for this: a building of fertilier guy who will go around and put a basket of water on the crops. He can also make trees grow faster. That will improve wood production for this tribe in the mid- and late-game. Then you can't enhance any building in Atlanteans tribe (except towers).


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2017-12-13, 09:36

kaputtnik wrote:

  • The resource markers a geologist places, shows which type of crop will grow here, just like with ore-resources. Such markers for crops may contain only some kind of a 'global' sign, because it will not be possible to show many crops on such a small sign. A detailed explanation which crop grow well on this sign could be shown in the notification message. Maybe something like "A geologist found fertile ground for: Wheat and Corn".

This will result in message spam, I think. At the moment, Geologists send only 1 message per resource type. With the new system, they would have to send a message for each node.

It would be better to give the resource markers some tooptips with detailed information.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Location: Saxony, GER
Posted at: 2017-12-13, 15:24

einstein13 wrote:

Adding geologist another job is a good practice. With my idea, the geologist will show where to put foresters to get best results of wood production.

Well, playing Widelands requires already a lot of time and energy. With your ideas, it will require even more (and this is the wrong direction of development in my opinion)

@WorldSavior: if you think that enhanced farms for Atlanteans would damage the game, pick another solution for this: a building of fertilier guy who will go around and put a basket of water on the crops. He can also make trees grow faster. That will improve wood production for this tribe in the mid- and late-game. Then you can't enhance any building in Atlanteans tribe (except towers).

Why not leaving the crops how they are and simplifying the supercomplicated tree growth model? A new building can make the game more complicated and slow

GunChleoc wrote:

kaputtnik wrote:

  • The resource markers a geologist places, shows which type of crop will grow here, just like with ore-resources. Such markers for crops may contain only some kind of a 'global' sign, because it will not be possible to show many crops on such a small sign. A detailed explanation which crop grow well on this sign could be shown in the notification message. Maybe something like "A geologist found fertile ground for: Wheat and Corn".

This will result in message spam, I think. At the moment, Geologists send only 1 message per resource type. With the new system, they would have to send a message for each node.

Good point


*insert phrase about the necessity of saving the world here*

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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1363
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Posted at: 2017-12-13, 15:40

WorldSavior wrote:

einstein13 wrote:

Adding geologist another job is a good practice. With my idea, the geologist will show where to put foresters to get best results of wood production.

Well, playing Widelands requires already a lot of time and energy. With your ideas, it will require even more (and this is the wrong direction of development in my opinion)

'direction of development' has to be clarified. The main focus of widelands is building and managing a good economy. Ware fare is just one part of it, not the main goal.

GunChleoc wrote:

kaputtnik wrote:

  • The resource markers a geologist places, shows which type of crop will grow here, just like with ore-resources. Such markers for crops may contain only some kind of a 'global' sign, because it will not be possible to show many crops on such a small sign. A detailed explanation which crop grow well on this sign could be shown in the notification message. Maybe something like "A geologist found fertile ground for: Wheat and Corn".

This will result in message spam, I think. At the moment, Geologists send only 1 message per resource type. With the new system, they would have to send a message for each node.

Wouldn't it be possible to send a combined message?


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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 2398
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Posted at: 2017-12-13, 19:28

kaputtnik wrote:

GunChleoc wrote:

kaputtnik wrote:

  • The resource markers a geologist places, shows which type of crop will grow here, just like with ore-resources. Such markers for crops may contain only some kind of a 'global' sign, because it will not be possible to show many crops on such a small sign. A detailed explanation which crop grow well on this sign could be shown in the notification message. Maybe something like "A geologist found fertile ground for: Wheat and Corn".

This will result in message spam, I think. At the moment, Geologists send only 1 message per resource type. With the new system, they would have to send a message for each node.

Wouldn't it be possible to send a combined message?

Theoretically, anything can be coded - it won't be a simple change though.


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