Topic: "Northmen" Tribe Page
king_of_nowhere
Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35
Posts: 1668  One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-06-29, 13:54
speaking of which, was my suggestion for rebalancing of values accepted into the code?or it still happens that some of the higher-end promotions are useless? 
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2017-06-29, 18:57
Max attack I assumed that it is starting from 1900 and increasing by 1000 Defence Increase by 20 while the only one tribe (Atlanteans) are increasing by 8 seems to be very high value. In my previous calculations it was only 6. balancing 9/10 I assume that those changes were included ages ago. My project have the newest values that all agreed. Calculations Now I will go with current knowledge about Firsians and please wait some time - I will provide new numbers. einstein13
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Nordfriese
Topic Opener
Joined: 2017-01-17, 17:07
Posts: 1949 OS: Debian Testing Version: Latest master One Elder of Players Location: 0x55555d3a34c0 |
Posted at: 2017-06-29, 19:10
I have set minimum basic attack to 1300, maximum basic attack to 1500, increase per training level to 1000. The high defence increase is needed to compensate lack of evade, which normally increases greatly. Atlanteans get up to 64% evade, while frisians only have 25%. Therefore, they get instead a defence up to 45%. I made some calculations about how this affects balancing in general, and the results are:
So at least, current settings don´t unbalance general fighting odds. Thank you for your more detailed calculations! About Scrap Metal: Everyone seems to have a different opinion how to handle it. I´ll just leave it as it is (2 scraps + 1 coal = 2 metal) until there is consensus about the perfect rate.
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hessenfarmer
Joined: 2014-12-11, 22:16
Posts: 2648 One Elder of Players Location: Bavaria |
Posted at: 2017-06-29, 21:41
I played the tribe yesterday. Unfortunately I chose random opponent and ended up against frisians. so no direct compare possible. I noticed that I ran into a real shortage of coal cause the frisians need a lot of it. Could be challenging on maps with little coal. Testing on every OS (in my case Win10) is quite easy. I just had installed the latest build from Tino and exchanged the tribes directory with the one from the frisians branch that's it. Best regards hessenfarmer
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2017-06-29, 22:34
Short simulation shows that level 10 soldiers: Battles win:
Attackers health:
Defenders health:
Frisians are very strong nowAll the calculations here were on test of 100'000 cases of fights each einstein13
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WorldSavior
Joined: 2016-10-15, 03:10
Posts: 2094 OS: Linux Version: Recent tournament version One Elder of Players Location: Germany |
Posted at: 2017-06-29, 22:59
"Do-narchy" would be the correct term here. Or "do-ctatorship"
Those values are very misleading. Just check out the newest values of Einstein....
Yes. Obviously too strong Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked
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king_of_nowhere
Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35
Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-06-30, 00:38
do-ctatorship... I like the sound of that as for the fighting, high defence correctly compensates low evade, but there is also huge attack which is not compensated by anything. those soldiers start at 17 average and reach all the way to 77, which is over 50% more than barbarians. they can kill a fully promoted soldier in 3 blows.
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NonServiam
Joined: 2015-07-25, 23:51
Posts: 48  Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2017-06-30, 00:42
Oooh, now I like this idea. Maybe Amazons are a bronze age tribe, so as you say they're poor at attack, but good at evade. They can make a basic fighter with just wooden spear and leather-covered wooden shield (so say 2 wood and 1 leather). Maybe Amazons' mines are for tin, copper, gold and coal. Their main metal is bronze (smelter: 2 copper + 1 tin + 1 coal = 1 bar of bronze) and elites obviously use gold as well. Maybe they don't have stone mines because they don't need stones ---- maybe all their buildings are tents made of wood, leather and ropes. They probably do need a stonemason model but only for clearing any stones that block the way. Maybe there's a special hardwood (teak?) that they sometimes get from their lumberjacks (like empire sometimes get marble instead of stone).
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2017-06-30, 10:23
Be careful with creating simple weapon without any metal: it would create unbalance, especially with collectors mode. You can create hundreds of weapons without any real economy (wood + weapon producer, without farms, mines and smelters). einstein13
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king_of_nowhere
Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35
Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-06-30, 13:23
empire has a weapon made with wood, but it does not affect collectors balancce much; gathering gold is still more efficient by far. Creating a whole soldier witthout an economy, now that's a different question. though I may like the idea of a tribe that does not use metals at all, or maybe just a little gold, but has a different and complex economy otherwise.
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