Currently Online

Latest Posts

Topic: New weaknesses of the AI

WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 919
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2017-06-07, 23:05

king_of_nowhere wrote:

Tibor wrote:

When testing, usual problem is unoccupied positions in militarysites. AI generally grows as fast as it can. It must be very special situation (restricted space) that all militarysites are full and soldiers are pilled in warehouses. So this algorithm is to control situation that does not happen...

WorldSavior wrote:

No... It is absolutely normal in the late game

Tibor wrote:

Indeed? My test games run for 4 hours and the main problem is always shortage of soldiers in militarysites.

that's because we have a different concept of "late game". ok, in a normal match it does not happen, but there are some maps that are meant to be played for several tens of hours (pretty much all of my challenge maps, plus large ocean and a few older ones) where the AI will grow for a long time without fighting, and it will fill all spots and get a storage of soldiers. So that algorithm is there to check on an uncommon situation that only arises in special games. doesn't seem complicated, and i don't see what bad could happen by including it.

For me matches on big regular maps are normal. And I could also imagine that the trunk AI maximizes the military strength there... It would become too easy to defeat the AI there: You can just make a defense with castles and foresters, so the AI often cannot attack. If you're safe, you can speed up the game extremely, wait until the AI-team doesn't get stronger and until you are much stronger than they are. Then you can simply overrun everything....


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

Top Quote
Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1187
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Slovakia
Posted at: 2017-06-08, 07:46

WorldSavior wrote:

For me matches on big regular maps are normal. And I could also imagine that the trunk AI maximizes the military strength there... It would become too easy to defeat the AI there: You can just make a defense with castles and foresters, so the AI often cannot attack. If you're safe, you can speed up the game extremely, wait until the AI-team doesn't get stronger and until you are much stronger than they are. Then you can simply overrun everything....

I think you mentioned bigger problem - when AI is not able to build militarysites too close to be able to attack.


Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1147
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2017-06-08, 14:36

Tibor wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

For me matches on big regular maps are normal. And I could also imagine that the trunk AI maximizes the military strength there... It would become too easy to defeat the AI there: You can just make a defense with castles and foresters, so the AI often cannot attack. If you're safe, you can speed up the game extremely, wait until the AI-team doesn't get stronger and until you are much stronger than they are. Then you can simply overrun everything....

I think you mentioned bigger problem - when AI is not able to build militarysites too close to be able to attack.

there were plans to teach it to build scouts, as well as to make scouts more efficient, but nobody ever coded them


Top Quote
Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1187
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Slovakia
Posted at: 2017-06-08, 15:12

king_of_nowhere wrote:

Tibor wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

For me matches on big regular maps are normal. And I could also imagine that the trunk AI maximizes the military strength there... It would become too easy to defeat the AI there: You can just make a defense with castles and foresters, so the AI often cannot attack. If you're safe, you can speed up the game extremely, wait until the AI-team doesn't get stronger and until you are much stronger than they are. Then you can simply overrun everything....

I think you mentioned bigger problem - when AI is not able to build militarysites too close to be able to attack.

there were plans to teach it to build scouts, as well as to make scouts more efficient, but nobody ever coded them

Do you think that this is not an issue of placing big-enough militarysites places close-enough to borders? Dont forget that AI can scan militarysites beyond actual visible area... So perhaps the problem is actually the impossibility to attack (no militarysites close enough to potential target) ....


Top Quote
WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 919
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2017-06-08, 23:42

Tibor wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

For me matches on big regular maps are normal. And I could also imagine that the trunk AI maximizes the military strength there... It would become too easy to defeat the AI there: You can just make a defense with castles and foresters, so the AI often cannot attack. If you're safe, you can speed up the game extremely, wait until the AI-team doesn't get stronger and until you are much stronger than they are. Then you can simply overrun everything....

I think you mentioned bigger problem - when AI is not able to build militarysites too close to be able to attack.

Do you think that this is a bigger problem than the constant economy settings of soldiers?


“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

Top Quote
king_of_nowhere
Avatar
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1147
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2017-06-09, 01:18

Tibor wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

there were plans to teach it to build scouts, as well as to make scouts more efficient, but nobody ever coded them

Do you think that this is not an issue of placing big-enough militarysites places close-enough to borders? Dont forget that AI can scan militarysites beyond actual visible area... So perhaps the problem is actually the impossibility to attack (no militarysites close enough to potential target) ....

Not as far as i can tell. on flat ground, the AI will build a tower or castle close to the border (unless that changed? I haven't played widelands since last tournament). when the terrain does not allow it, though, the AI will not make a big building and it will not attack. so it seems more of a visibility issue


Top Quote