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Topic: Widelands tournament 2017: subscriptions started (and random chit-chat)

Forums » Player Forums » Playing Widelands » Widelands tournament 2017: subscriptions started (and random chit-chat)



LAZA
Joined: 2010-05-22, 12:34
Posts: 46
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Winterhill, Swabia, Germany
Posted at: 2017-03-19, 13:16

WorldSavior wrote:

LAZA wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

LAZA wrote:

Will i get a bonus buchholz for the first participant? face-tongue.png

face-grin.png Even if you neglect king_of_nowhere's participation, GunChleoc is the first participant :D

Sauerei!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2_FfX3pFg4

What the hell did I just watch? face-tongue.png

That clip seems to be random to me, maybe because you showed it to us face-wink.png

GunChleoc wrote:

Is that the chieftain bonus? I'll sure need it face-tongue.png

You could ask me for advice, then you'd not necessarily need a bonus face-wink.png

YT clip - Man achte auf den Zwischenruf...!


* Dell X58 *
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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 275
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Location: Saxony, Djermany
Posted at: 2017-03-19, 16:23

I had already noticed it face-wink.png

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Well, many people might play much more often than in tournaments...

friendly games do not count towards the ranking. unless people decide to play a ranked game in advance, in which case they would have to send me a replay, and not many would want to go through the hassle.

So it might be better if the ranking would be completely automatic

einstein13 wrote:

@Normal Widelands face-smile.png Widelands is different for any person. For me, normal game is when you have enough time to build up whole economy.

That sounds also normal for me face-wink.png


*insert phrase about the necessity of saving the world here*

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 1928
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One Elder of Players
Location: RenderedRect
Posted at: 2017-03-20, 10:53

Wesnoth have an inofficial ladder, maybe we can steal some ideas from there?

http://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 275
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Location: Saxony, Djermany
Posted at: 2017-03-22, 16:28

Yes, maybe. If it's legal, why not. Probably they won't miss anything face-wink.png


*insert phrase about the necessity of saving the world here*

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2017-03-22, 17:50

We would need to check the license, of course. But since Wesnoth itself is GPL and we already have reused some of their code, chances are good.

Edited: 2017-03-22, 17:50
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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-03-22, 23:22

I don't like the idea of having an automated system. I want people playing casual games to be able to keep playing casually. I see in league of legends that people are much more aggressive in ranked, with more pressure put on the players and flaming much more likely. Eventually I stopped playing ranked (didn't help that the matchmaking system must have some skewed idea of my real strenght and always pair me against much stronger people than I am, so I often end up feeding). I don't want the same thing to happen here. there is also to take into account how many maps are unbalanced; how would an automated system deal with that?


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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 53
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Posted at: 2017-03-23, 19:40

I want people playing casual games to be able to keep playing casually.

Starcraft has that: it's called unranked. You play with people of your level, but the result of the match doesn't affect your ELO.

Another point is that casual players are more likely to prefer to play with other casual players. I think it's a benefit.

people are much more aggressive in ranked, with more pressure put on the players and flaming much more likely.

Yes, but that only happens if you know about your ELO! face-smile.png If it's unknown you will barely notice it, but you'll be at the right level. When a contest appears though ELO, it will be displayed. Thus contests are more stressful. But isn't that the whole point of it?

I think the reason the game is so relaxed right now is also a question of the population. Most of the competitive games have a bad community because of the number of players. If widelands start to get even bigger than it is right now, the community will degrade a bit. Whatever the implementation of competition you got.

there is also to take into account how many maps are unbalanced; how would an automated system deal with that?

If you're randomly placed for each map. Statistically you'll end having bad positions has much as good ones. I don't see the problem here. You mean for people who don't play a lot?

If we want to be sure that people play exactly as many bad than good position, we could always take a statistic of the best/worst position, and place accordingly so that it's 50% good position/ 50%bad ones.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-03-23, 20:41

trimard wrote:

  • stuff *

everything you say works for a system with automated pairing, automated settings, and a large pool of players. a system where you click on a "play match" button and then it does it all automatically. this is definitely not our case. most people just contact each other in advance to play, because if you go in lobby you'll most likely find it empty. most of those people don't even read the forum, i don't know how they would react if they played a game and suddenly a sign popped up "you lost 30 elo points!". some of those people may intentionally give the bad start to the better player, something that would not be appreciated if the games were ranked automatically.. and we certainly cannot afford an automated matchmaking system. "you've been put on the queue, your queueing position is 1 out of 1. average waiting time is two hours".

Last, I absolutely hate the "hidden ranking" system. apparently people couldn't bear the fact that they were ranked 234739th, so they kept the data covered. So now I know I have a crappy score, I just don't know how crappy that it, or how it compares to others. No, just awful. If we implement some ranking, I prefer to use the rules of chess, which has had a ranking going on for far longer than any videogame, and it is regulated with a measure of seriousness - there's a lot of complaining about some of the FIDE policies, but at least it's not an owning enterprise taking decisions. And in chess, only tournament games are ranked.


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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2017-03-23, 21:11

If we have something automated, it should definitely be opt-in for the players. It would also be good to have an extra dev on the team for this, because coding this will not be trivial.


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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
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Posted at: 2017-03-24, 15:42

everything you say works for a system with automated pairing, automated settings, and a large pool of players

Last one is definitely the hardest part, I agree. The other are more manageable It think.

a system where you click on a "play match" button and then it does it all automatically.

No that's not what I had in mind for the reasons you illustrated pretty well.

I was more thinking at a system where you say at what time you expect to be able to play, and the system automatically tells you the players that might play at these hours (in order of priority those that have the closest elo to you, hence the ELO really don't close any opportunity). You click on the "propose match" option, you set the time, you propose a few maps. When the other agree with the time, he chose the map among those you proposed. When the time to plays comes around, if you're not present, you get malus points.

If we implement some ranking, I prefer to use the rules of chess, which has had a ranking going on for far longer than any videogame

I agree, we haven't discovered any better system yet IMO, but doesn't that have the same problem than with the LOL system? People won't be frustrated?

It would also be good to have an extra dev on the team for this, because coding this will not be trivial.

I'm ready to help on that part this summer, if we agree on the concept face-smile.png


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