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Topic: Tree growth changed?

QCS
Joined: 2009-12-29, 22:47
Posts: 256
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Posted at: 2016-01-25, 18:14

Hi,

I am currently playing Last Bastion map.

I believe I got some info that trees now have terrain affinity (is that true?), but somehow I feel that when I played this map, tree growth is totally low. Has this always been the case on this map? I feel that it is close to unplayable, you get to cut down all the trees you find when starting the map (so you need to rush the map as fast as you can to secure the trees), but once they are cut, you are literally waiting for each and every tree to grow, even when you have lots of dedicated areas only for trees.


CMake is evil.

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einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1021
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Location: Poland
Posted at: 2016-01-25, 19:44

Between Build18 and now there were at least 3 threes growth changes. Now there is special equation for any tree and any mix of terrains. Some of the terrains are barren, some not. I will check if last bastion has problem with that.

Edit: Checked

Last Bastion map is based on ice. This type of terrain is barren. It is based on water and cold. Not very fertile. So I guess that almost none of the trees can survive face-confused.png And yes, it is not playable any more face-sad.png

Edited: 2016-01-25, 19:52

einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2016-01-25, 20:14

The terrain is all snow. How about adding some Tundra, which will allow for the growing of trees?


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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2016-01-25, 20:19

Hmm. that's bad. 'The last bastion' is a shipped map and i think all shipped maps should be playable. Has someone tested the other shipped maps?

Last Bastion map is based on ice.

No, it is winter snow. If "The last bastion" is the only bad map, it should be possible to change the terrain from snow to something with better fertility, f.e. tundra.


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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2016-01-25, 21:07

I think it would be a good idea to playtest all official maps to see if they still work with the current tree terrain affinities, and then to edit with similar-looking terrains.


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Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1185
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Location: Slovakia
Posted at: 2016-01-25, 21:26

GunChleoc wrote:

I think it would be a good idea to playtest all official maps to see if they still work with the current tree terrain affinities, and then to edit with similar-looking terrains.

I would go a step further - what about replace some of packed maps. There are quite a lot of new maps in download sections (since release 18), it would be nice if we swap handful (2-3-4) old maps for new maps.

Also AI can have problems with some maps (I know about one, though I dont remember a name) - so even AI-only tests would be sufficient - and it would cover also test of trees growth.

We have couple of good players here I believe they are able to come up with a proposal which maps to remove and which add into shipped maps.


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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2016-01-25, 21:55

Nevertheless each shipped map has to be tested.... just prevent swapping good maps and leaving bad maps face-smile.png


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1133
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Posted at: 2016-01-25, 21:59

strange that last bastion is all on snow. When I handpicked the values for the latest tree change (the one currently in use) I made sure to keep at least roughly the same old affinity. So all trees that grew, for example, on summer meadow in build 18 will still grow in summer meadow with similar percentages.

It is possible that I made a mistake for one terrain type. It is also possible I did it intentionally: there was a request to make one buildable but barren terrain for every biome, so that one could make port spaces without trees growing spontaneously on them. those barren terrains are barren steppe for summer, desert 4 - and, to a lesser extent, dry soil - on desert, igneous rock on wasteland, and snow on winter. I think a barren buildable terrain is a useful thing to have anyway. Not that it is completely barren; you should be able to get a decent productivity if you place 5 foresters for every woodcutter and give them plenty of space. but yeah, not good.

I agree with the proposal to change the terrain of that map to tundra. I also agree in including some new map in the default maps that come with the game. Now, I'd like to see one of my maps for that, but it would be more fair to vote or something. or at least let choose someone who doesn't have a conflict of interests face-smile.png


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Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1185
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Location: Slovakia
Posted at: 2016-01-25, 22:10

I think we could pick a few peoples (like king of nowhere, einstein, wl-zocker, ???) who dont participate in C++ development and testing much, and let they come up with a proposal. I personally would accept whatever they will come up with. Or create some voting pool if technically possible. I think we dont have more then couple of weeks for this...

What do you think?


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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2016-01-25, 22:33

I think active players who know the maps should all be allowed to suggest maps, even if they created them themselves. Since we're a small community, we can probably come to a consensus about which maps to include without having a formal vote.


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