Topic: Will there be a widelands tournament 2016?

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king_of_nowhere Topic Opener Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2015-09-30, 20:03 Just curious about it. Yes, no, or depends? and if it depends, on what does it depends? Is there some way to contribute to make it more likely to happpen? Top Quote

kaputtnik Joined: 2013-02-18, 19:48 Posts: 2439 OS: Archlinux Version: current master One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2015-09-30, 21:10 You will have to use another nickname for joining a new tournament, otherwise nobody want's to play against you (or everyone wants to play with you ) I wasn't much interested in the last tournament, but have looked at some replays. What i found surprising was that the maps was known prior the tournament game starts. So every player could play the game prior and gather information (f.e. where resources could be found). In result the player which spend the most time on a map prior the tournament game had much more advantages as a player who plays this map less often. I think in future tournaments the maps shouldn't be known prior the tournament Fight simulator for Widelands: https://wide-fighter.netlify.app/ Top Quote

QCS Joined: 2009-12-29, 21:47 Posts: 256 Tribe Member	Posted at: 2015-10-01, 05:07 > kaputtnik wrote: > > You will have to use another nickname for joining a new tournament, otherwise nobody want's to play against you :-D (or everyone wants to play with you ;) ) > > I wasn't much interested in the last tournament, but have looked at some replays. What i found surprising was that the maps was known prior the tournament game starts. So every player could play the game prior and gather information (f.e. where resources could be found). In result the player which spend the most time on a map prior the tournament game had much more advantages as a player who plays this map less often. I think in future tournaments the maps shouldn't be known prior the tournament :-) I guess this was a deliberate decision because in former tournaments, maps were not known until start of the match, which gave big advantages to long-term players who knew each and every map. I see the "current" way of equaling chances by making the maps known beforehand the better option. Much better still would be having new unknown maps for a new tournament :-D CMake is evil. Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Topic Opener Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2015-10-01, 17:35 i have to say, the idea of having maps that are new for everyone would be nice. however, that would require those maps to be made just for the tournament, which is inpractical. The alternative of having random maps, as qcs wrote, would imbalance between those who just happen to know the map and those who don't. Top Quote

einstein13 Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01 Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland	Posted at: 2015-10-01, 21:35 king_of_nowhere wrote: which is inpractical. Not exactly. Those maps can be created for tournament AND they should be published for example ~1 hour before start. You still can know the map a bit (how to start) but it isn't possible to know what will happen in the middle and end of the game. New maps are always welcome in Widelands! einstein13 calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/ backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/ Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Topic Opener Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2015-10-02, 00:54 the problem is that you'd need a new map for every single game. last tournament there were 27 games, it would require 27 new maps. maps which would have to be made by the organizers, to guarantee they remain secret. It could be done for a single game, not for all. Plus, if the maps are not playtested, people may complain they are unfair. Top Quote

trimard Joined: 2009-03-05, 21:40 Posts: 230 Widelands-Forum-Junkie Location: Paris	Posted at: 2015-10-02, 11:10 last tournament there were 27 games, it would require 27 new maps. maps which would have to be made by the organizers, to guarantee they remain secret. Why require so many new maps? Starcraft 2 tournaments for example only use a few maps for their whole match (and there is far more than 27). When the tournament start the few new maps are showed and all the games are played on these maps. Which means that at the end of tournament the maps are known pretty well. But that will be the case for every player, wouldn't it? Question is how many maps are required and how many can be built fast enough? Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Topic Opener Joined: 2014-09-15, 17:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2015-10-02, 13:23 if you want people to not be prepared on a map, you have to use a new map for every game. Else, once you post it, people can prepare on it. I suppose in starcraft it doesn't matter that much, because preparing properly requires a human opponent. Not in widelands. In widelands, 90% of the game is building a strong economy, and you can prepare that alone. especially in small maps, where squeezing in one more farm may make the difference. For the previous tournament, I prepared by playing alone and trying different building placements and building orders until I was satisfied. Another important factor is where to expand. If you go in that direction, will you find good land? or will you stumble opon your opponent while you are unprepared? That's an important ffactor, because I want to build fortifications on the side of my enemy, and put some decent soldiers in them, while I want to build the training sites on the opposite side, because they are expensive and I don't want to risk losing them if i lose some battles. And knowing which direction your opponent will arrive requires only playing once. Heck, if you let people download the map just before the game, one can open the editor in a different build of widelands and check from there. So, you want the players to not know the map, you have to make a brand-new map and not let the players download it, but rather have a third part host the game with that map. Now that I think about it, it makes sense. If we don't want people to prepare, not making the map public and having a referee host with it would be the only way. Still, it would add other difficulties. Personally, I believe we should just let people prepare. Although I prepare, so I may be biased on that. Top Quote

Venatrix Joined: 2010-10-05, 19:31 Posts: 449 Tribe Member Location: Germany	Posted at: 2015-10-02, 15:06 king_of_nowhere wrote: So, you want the players to not know the map, you have to make a brand-new map and not let the players download it, but rather have a third part host the game with that map. Now that I think about it, it makes sense. If we don't want people to prepare, not making the map public and having a referee host with it would be the only way. Still, it would add other difficulties. But with this approach you don’t have to use 27 maps, as you can a) set all the games in one round on the same map (as long as the players are fair enough not to talk about the map AND nobody’s allowed to watch the game until the round is over) b) even let more rounds be played on the same map as the players don’t have a chance to play (or watch) it more than the others. But I guess the biggest drawback is the already mentioned problem with creating and playtesting the map first. Two is the oddest prime. Top Quote

kaputtnik Joined: 2013-02-18, 19:48 Posts: 2439 OS: Archlinux Version: current master One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2015-10-02, 16:56 But I guess the biggest drawback is the already mentioned problem with creating and playtesting the map first. Yes, this would be a problem.... Fight simulator for Widelands: https://wide-fighter.netlify.app/ Top Quote

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