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Topic: Trees and Terrains

GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2016-02-28, 09:48

Merge request

This should give us a Windows build with the new values in a few hours face-smile.png

Here's the new probabilities - I will only list the first few trees:

Ashes 2:

  • the two ashes terrains look similar and have the same name, but one has HGP of 67%, the other has 34%; they were intended to have 50-60% HGP. Solution: raise ashes 2 humidity from 0.1 to 0.13.
Tree Probability (%)
Cirrus Tree 41.7
Liana Tree 34.0
Green Umbrella Tree 13.8
... ...

Hard Ground

  • hard ground 2 and 4 only have HGP around 70%, when they are intended as main fertile terrain. Solution: modify the red umbrella tree, that lacks a good habitat anyway, with the following preferred values: 90 0.15 0.8, pickiness 0.8. Possible problem: make sure it doesn't grow over 50% in ashes 1.

This is Hard Ground 2:

Tree Probability (%)
Red Umbrella Tree 82.3
Dark Mushroom Tree 72.6
Green Mushroom Tree 56.6
... ...

Igneous Rock

  • igneous rock, as the sterile buildable terrain of wasteland, has HGP of 10%, against a 5% of similar terrains of other biomes (desert 4, barren steppe, snow). Solution: lower fertility from 0.25 to 0.2.
Tree Probability (%)
Liana Tree 5.4
Beech 5.0
Coconut Palm 2.1
... ...

Meadow 3

  • meadow 3 has HGP of only 55% despite being a main fertile terrain. Solution: modify the maple tree, that has few good habitats anyway, reducing its preferred humidity from 0.7 to 0.55
Tree Probability (%)
Maple 92.0
Rowan 54.3
Aspen 52.0
... ...

Summer Mountain Meadow

  • summer mountain meadow has a HGP of 95% when it was targeted for 70%. Proposed solution: lower temperature from 85 to 75. It will also encourage coniferous trees, we want it to look like a subalpine environment. Possible problem: make sure spruce doesn't grow over 70% on it, we don't want coniferous to completely take over.
Tree Probability (%)
Spruce 80.4
Oak 80.0
Birch 77.3
... ...

Tundra

  • tundra 00 has HGP just a bit too low for a main terrain. Proposed solution: raise temperature from 45 to 50. Take care: unlike other terrains, where their place in the help is determined by the alphabetical order, tundra 00 comes after the other tundras, even if it is first in the terrain tool; it is the whiter ones of the three tundras.
Tree Probability (%)
Larch 78.9
Spruce 69.5
Birch 25.7
... ...

Once the Windows build is finished, you could play with the values directly - you will only need to restart the editor to get the new values.

Terrains are in data/world/terrains Trees are in data/world/immovables/trees

ETA: AppVeyor builds are ready.

Edited: 2016-02-28, 13:18

Busy indexing nil values

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2016-02-29, 15:32

A few things where I'm still not satisfied.

ashes 2: 41% is still too low. try also lowering the temperature to 115.

hard ground 2: I prefer main terrains to have at least 90% HGP. try with red umbrella preferred fertility at 0.825. By the way, I'd like to see how it does in hard ground 4 too.

summer mountain meadow: I'd like those percentages to be 10% smaller. Try reducing its fertility to 0.45

tundra 00: needs some 10% better HGP. try fertility at 0.45.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2016-02-29, 18:09

Ashes 2

ashes 2: 41% is still too low. try also lowering the temperature to 115.

Tree Probability (%)
Cirrus Tree 81.0
Green Mushroom Tree 36.2
Liana Tree 34.0
... ...

Hard Ground 2

hard ground 2: I prefer main terrains to have at least 90% HGP. try with red umbrella preferred fertility at 0.825. By the way, I'd like to see how it does in hard ground 4 too.

Tree Probability (%)
Red Umbrella Tree 89.5
Dark Mushroom Tree 72.6
Green Mushroom Tree 56.6
... ...

Hard Ground 4

Tree Probability (%)
Red Umbrella Tree 85.8
Dark Mushroom Tree 71.7
Red Mushroom Tree 67.6
... ...

Mountain Meadow

summer mountain meadow: I'd like those percentages to be 10% smaller. Try reducing its fertility to 0.45

Tree Probability (%)
Spruce 78.2
Oak 78.2
Birch 67.2
... ...

Tundra

tundra 00: needs some 10% better HGP. try fertility at 0.45.

Tree Probability (%)
Larch 88.3
Spruce 67.6
Birch 22.3
... ...

Busy indexing nil values

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2016-02-29, 19:27

huh, that's surprising. Sometimes changing a value by a 0.5 has almost no effect, and sometimes the cirrus tree willjump from 40 to 80%. I guess it depends on which part of the gaussian curve you're on. try a temperature of 118 on ashes 2.

Values for mountain meadow are still higher than they should, but I don't know how to change them effectively. lowering the fertility further would prevent birch from growing on it, and birch is tipical of cold temperate climate. Lowering humidity would make birch and oak grow too well on it. Cooling it would favor spruce too much, and warming it would favor oak too much. Maybe leaving the fertility to 0.5 but increasing the humidity to 0.8 would lower spruce and oak enough? try that. If not, 78% HGP on mountain meadow is not a tragedy, we'll live with it.

Everything else is good.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2016-03-01, 07:49

Ashes 2

huh, that's surprising. Sometimes changing a value by a 0.5 has almost no effect, and sometimes the cirrus tree willjump from 40 to 80%. I guess it depends on which part of the gaussian curve you're on. try a temperature of 118 on ashes 2.

Tree Probability (%)
Cirrus Tree 71.2
Liana Tree 34.6
Green Mushroom Tree 28.8
... ...

Mountain Meadow

Values for mountain meadow are still higher than they should, but I don't know how to change them effectively. lowering the fertility further would prevent birch from growing on it, and birch is tipical of cold temperate climate. Lowering humidity would make birch and oak grow too well on it. Cooling it would favor spruce too much, and warming it would favor oak too much. Maybe leaving the fertility to 0.5 but increasing the humidity to 0.8 would lower spruce and oak enough? try that. If not, 78% HGP on mountain meadow is not a tragedy, we'll live with it.

Tree Probability (%)
Spruce 71.2
Oak 71.2
Birch 57.2
... ...

Busy indexing nil values

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2016-03-01, 18:12

wow, perfectly on target.

ok, let's kkeep those values as final. as soon as they are implemented on a windows build, i will make the promised table.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2016-03-02, 09:36

The change should hit trunk in about 20 minutes face-smile.png

I am wondering whether we can't automate the table, so it will update itself automatically whenever something changes, e.g. a new terrain or tree gets added...

All the values that you see in the editor help can also be exported and then read by the website - we will need to do some programming for this though, So, I'd target it for Build 20. I am already adapting the encyclopedia for the current Widelands builds, so I should be able to pull this off.

You should make a start on the table in any case though, so I can see what you have in mind for the design.


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2016-03-10, 20:43

I have no idea how to make an auto-updating table, so I made do with an hour of typing. Here is the link.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1555785


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2016-03-11, 09:05

king_of_nowhere wrote:

I have no idea how to make an auto-updating table,

You can't - that would require both C++ and Python/Django programming face-wink.png

so I made do with an hour of typing. Here is the link. https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1555785

Thanks! face-smile.png


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