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Topic: Widelands tournament 2017: subscriptions started!

teppo

Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
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Posted at: 2017-11-23, 06:34

WorldSavior wrote:

@teppo: How do you judge both cases?

In the first case (round 1), it is quite clear that having to reschedule at late stage can be a problem, especially if the new opponent has a limited availability. Bear in mind, that the rules also give players so much time to agree on schedule. I did not check the dates in the response of K_o_N, though. I can revisit those if you wish.

Of course, King_of_Nowhere could have remained passive and accepted an easy "forfait-grade" victory instead of playing. Would that have been be better in your opinion?

Regarding the second point: An older post of K_o_N already mentions that he is busy. The round is not in overtime yet, and there is nothing to judge.

EDIT: Of course, it would be nice if the rules would cover all cases like this. That leads to insurance-company-like scripts. At some point, that stops being fun. The longest EULA I have seen had more words than the New Testament.

Edited: 2017-11-23, 06:49

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2017-11-23, 18:54

king_of_nowhere wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

The fact that you read a book and want to watch a movie is not a reason at all for saying that you don't have time for the tournament. You'd have to give yourself a penalty, if you'd go into the overtime because of that.

(Otherwise everyone could always say: "I want to fill my free time with a lot of stuff, I cannot play")

And by the way, you haven't given yourself a penalty for going into the overtime in round #1 yet.

@teppo: How do you judge both cases?

@king_of_nowhere: By the way, you'd like to play build 19, right?

meh. There was a lot of joking in that. I'm still pplenty busy at least until half the next week, and I still don't know exactly when, as they keep establishing new meetings. I could play next weekend, but I may as well give forfait if I am not prrepared. If you insist that I take a bucholz penalty for playing later, I will.

Would there be a reason for not insisting on that?

As for my first round, I was initially scheduled to go against dershrimp, whom retired from the tournament on 13/9, forcing me to change the schedule. That's why I played later. The announcement is on page 6 of this thread. Teppo can look at it.

I know, but the overtime had already started two days before that. You didn't tell before round #1 that you go to a chess tournament and play your match after the deadline.

And yes I'd rather use build19 unless we have something that does not crash every half hour.

Okay, we can use b19.

teppo wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

@teppo: How do you judge both cases?

In the first case (round 1), it is quite clear that having to reschedule at late stage can be a problem, especially if the new opponent has a limited availability. Bear in mind, that the rules also give players so much time to agree on schedule. I did not check the dates in the response of K_o_N, though. I can revisit those if you wish.

It would be nice if you'd take a look at the responses so you could see that king_of_nowhere didn't tell that he had to go into the overtime

Of course, King_of_Nowhere could have remained passive and accepted an easy "forfait-grade" victory instead of playing. Would that have been be better in your opinion?

As dershrimp left the tournament in the overtime, I think that this question is not answerable face-wink.png

Regarding the second point: An older post of K_o_N already mentions that he is busy.

So what? face-wink.png

The round is not in overtime yet, and there is nothing to judge.

EDIT: Of course, it would be nice if the rules would cover all cases like this. That leads to insurance-company-like scripts. At some point, that stops being fun. The longest EULA I have seen had more words than the New Testament.

Is the case not covered?


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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teppo

Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
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Posted at: 2017-11-24, 06:29

WorldSavior wrote:

As dershrimp left the tournament in the overtime, I think that this question is not answerable ;-)

It is more complicated than that. The first round was announced on August 31th. The match table does indeed say:

Allotted time: start the game no later than 10 september, finish no later than 1 october

However, section 2 of rules say (partial quote):

Therefore, when a round is started, every player is expected to play within one week. Since people from different time zones cannot reasonably play except on weekends, and need a couple days to set up a game, if the turn is declared thursday or later in the week, the deadline to play will be extended until the next sunday.

, which is applicable here.

Is the case not covered?

What are you referring to?

Changing assignments just before a deadline in round one, or the match of yours of round six, which might go overtime?

I have no opinions yet.

EDIT: Keep in mind, that if WorldSavior wins against King_of_Nowhere, he wins by points. If King_of_Nowhere wins the match, an exception in the rules is applied and the tournament winner is chosen by another game round. A possible bucholz penalty does thus not change the champion, but could still affect other ranking (did not check).

EDIT2: I noticed a possible error in the above, but must quit the forum now. I'll fix this post maybe tomorrow. EDIT3: This post is already messy enough. Scroll down, find a newer post.

Edited: 2017-11-25, 18:07

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2017-11-24, 09:45

Einstein & I will play Tuesday, 28th November, at 7:30 CET.


Busy indexing nil values

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einstein13
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Posted at: 2017-11-25, 01:01

GunChleoc wrote:

7:30 CET.

When I was sending a PM to GunCheloc, I thought about 7:30 PM CET. Hope she thought that too...


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2017-11-25, 05:07

Yes, that's OK. I did see the CET, and I'm assuming you mean in the evening?


Busy indexing nil values

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2017-11-25, 14:49

teppo wrote:

EDIT: Of course, it would be nice if the rules would cover all cases like this. That leads to insurance-company-like scripts. At some point, that stops being fun. The longest EULA I have seen had more words than the New Testament.

The rules are intended to be as thorough as possible while still straightforward. As long as everyone agrees to a friendly game, simple friendly rules suffice; in fact, before I took over tournament organization, the rules were evenn shorter, and nobody complained.

Now, the intent of the rules should be clear: when a turn is announced, players should start playing without much delay, as in a swiss system it would delay all the other players too. delay is tolerated for real life reasons, because real life trumps videogames, and that's it. It is not a matter of exact day, but of attitude.

So, if anyone here thinks I am having a bad attitude, I am not putting much effort into making the tournament working well, and as a result of me shirking my duties I am annoying other players, feel free to say so, and I will take a penalty. I doubt anyone can seriously claim fault in my behavior.

That said, I absolutely do not like worldsavior's rule-lawyering attitude. It is the kind of thing that creates needless hassle for everyone involved - which is especially bad since everyone here is volunteering to work and having to answer or judge his accusations is a drain on everyone's already scarce free time. Especially apalling is his thirst to win with every mean. Trying to get me penalized so he'd win regardless of the game? Trying to force an early game so I won't be able to prepare? Offering a draw to anyone who might play with him because that's enough for him to win? REALLY? I could understand that kind of behavior if there was money involved as a prize. Here we are battling for nothing but honor, and where is the honor in that? If I were in his place, I would tell my opponent to take all the time he needs so he can prepare and we can get an epic fight, which - regardless of the result - is much more honorable than trying to use somebody's real life against him. Just as I tried, since first I figured out those strategies back in 2015, to teach them to the community as a whole so that they could progress and challenge me. While I've never seen worldsavior give advanced strategy tips, even though he's now stronger than me.

I swear, worldsavior, you keep pushing one more time for some kind of rule-lawyering garbage, and the next tournament I will add a new rule that I can reject players I find troublesome, specifically to keep you out. I'm tired of headbutting with you on every small detail. You've given me far, far more problems with organization than all the other players put together. If you have so many problems with the way I run the tournament, go organize one yourself.

P.S. When you got LAZA to play so we would be an even number again, I told you that you could hold that the next time someone accused you of always complaining and never helping. I have not forgotten that. In fact, I told you specifically because I've been close to snapping at you several times in the past, and I knew I could cross the line eventually. Well that time is now. My students have already frayed enough my patience, and I have none left here. Your methods have solved problems in the past, but I don't see what good can they do here, and I am absolutely not in the mood tp put up with that


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nemesis26
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Joined: 2017-01-30, 01:02
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Posted at: 2017-11-25, 15:42

It doesnt matter to me, if you are taking a small advantage with being the organizer of the tournament and delaying the announcement of the next round to have some practice or something like that. Everyone gets more time, so its no disadvantage for the rest and reallife is more important than this tournament!
I am just happy to play the game and this tournament gives me lots of opponents to play against and i dont think, i would have played against this players without this tournament!
So i just have to say thank you for organizing it and i hope, there will be more next year :)


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teppo

Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
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Posted at: 2017-11-25, 17:49

WorldSavior wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

The fact that you read a book and want to watch a movie is not a reason at all for saying that you don't have time for the tournament. You'd have to give yourself a penalty, if you'd go into the overtime because of that.

(Otherwise everyone could always say: "I want to fill my free time with a lot of stuff, I cannot play")

And by the way, you haven't given yourself a penalty for going into the overtime in round #1 yet.

@teppo: How do you judge both cases?

In my opinion, Worldsavior has a point with round 1 : The game did not start in time. While it is rather likely that dershrimp was passive (he quit), it is not obvious that King_of_Nowhere made enough attempts to organize a match in time.

If the possible penalty from round 1 had been applied earlier, that penalty would have affected pairing of other rounds and possibly also the score of WorldSavior. Since any bucholz penalty to King_of_Nowhere at this point is no longer going to affect the score of WorldSavior, I assume that he has been happy with the bucholz of King_of_Nowhere until now. However, if any player who still could be put into disadvantage raises the issue, either via this thread or as private message to me, I must ask King_of_Nowhere to either show me his private messages regarding match-making with dershrimp between Aug 31st and Sept 10th for further reading or accept a penalty of one bucholz from round 1.

Regarding round six: King_of_Nowhere has, in advance, given better reasons than "reading a book and watching a movie". I will not assign penalties from round six because of this.


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teppo

Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
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Posted at: 2017-11-25, 17:56

king_of_nowhere wrote:

The rules are intended to be as thorough as possible while still straightforward. As long as everyone agrees to a friendly game, simple friendly rules suffice; in fact, before I took over tournament organization, the rules were evenn shorter, and nobody complained.

I have a feeling that many of the older matches were organized by somebody who did not play himself.

Now, the intent of the rules should be clear: when a turn is announced, players should start playing without much delay, as in a swiss system it would delay all the other players too. delay is tolerated for real life reasons, because real life trumps videogames, and that's it. It is not a matter of exact day, but of attitude.

I understand this fully. However, if there are rules, those should be followed. Detailed rules can also push the battles towards the rules themselves.

Edited: 2017-11-25, 18:14

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