Marcelo_do_Pagode
Joined: 2011-07-23, 17:59
Posts: 36
Pry about Widelands
Location: Brazil
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Posted at: 2011-08-02, 20:31
@Astuur:
Wow! Your water flow animations are great! The game looks a lot better with them!
Amazing how you guys are working to make the game look more realistic every day.
Congrats and thank you very much for making our (gamers) experience even better.
Marcelo do Pagode
Ubuntu 11.04
Colorado com muito orgulho!
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Astuur
Topic Opener
Joined: 2009-02-28, 09:08
Posts: 733
One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
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Posted at: 2011-08-03, 05:54
Thanks Marcelo,
Glad you like it.
I have an extended version with +30 anim pictures, but I'm not sure if it is justified
to dedicate so many picture; it's only a bit smoother and allows to be played slower without strobo effect.
I have concentrated on other things meanwhile, awaiting Chuck's assessment and suggestions.
It all starts with enjoying to play this free game. Then you start thinking about how it can be made
even better, reading about others' idea, and publishing your own. Finally you come to a point, where you
try to contribute according to your possibilities, even when you are neither a programer nor an artist.
I have been having fun playing WL for hours and hours and felt (feel!) it was just fair to say thank you by some small own conributions.
Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).
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chuckw
Joined: 2010-03-15, 15:23
Posts: 945
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
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Posted at: 2011-08-04, 17:32
The ONLY criticism I can find is with your greenland water animation. To my eyes, the "sparkling" white pixels are distracting in the darker water, and they tend to lend the "notorious pulsing" effect. I tried slowing it down from fps=10 to 7 and then 5, but that just yielded a more jerkiness (is that a word?) to the effect. Possibly introducing more intermediate frames could smooth the effect by gradually moving or fading the white pixels. The winterland water animation could be substituted or something else of your own design.
I find the effect not as distracting in your lighter desert water animation. There the contrast of the white pixels is not so great and, hence not as noticeable.
Fine work over all.
I see little people.
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Astuur
Topic Opener
Joined: 2009-02-28, 09:08
Posts: 733
One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
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Posted at: 2011-08-05, 06:46
Yes, I agree - I have the same criticism; but no cure so far.
The sparkling adds a lot to the vertical stripes pattern effect.
I have been working to minimize that with yet another attempt.
Just taken out the sparks.
here
But I still see too clearly the vertical stripes in the time loop.
So, I did yet another one.
here
Try that with 9 fps
I have lowered the contrast, taken out a lot of the "spray effect", (the main culprit for time wrap problems)
and refrained from using any "sparkling".
but I am not too enthusiastic about the result.
It's a bit dull, don't you think?
So I have tried a different approach:
Starting out from the original, I have done a 2/3 blend and blown the animation up to 30 frames.
I recommend 14 fps for that.
here
The blending dimmes some of the higlights (sparkling), and the slower motion seems good.
But it sort of "smears" the motion in a stange way. Not sure if I like it.
What I probably should do, is a proper morphing (vs. blending) to create intermediate frames,
but I have no software for that. Stuck here a bit.
Edited: 2011-08-05, 07:05
Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).
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Astuur
Topic Opener
Joined: 2009-02-28, 09:08
Posts: 733
One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
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Posted at: 2011-08-05, 08:18
Coming to the rest of your posting, Chuck.
The general idea was to have a decent Greenland animation, and see then what we can do for the other worlds.
The winterland water animation could be substituted or something else of your own design.
But I have done one for winterland !? Not good enough?
It's a special case, as the water color must fit the ice_flows.
Or are you insisting in the "dull steel grey" idea that you had initially?
I find the effect not as distracting in your lighter desert water animation.
There the contrast of the white pixels is not so great and, hence not as noticeable.
Very well, if you think so, we can use lighter variant then.
Personally I'd prefer it for a lagoon type of water (shallow, with a lot of sun in it), but we cannot
have 2 (or even 3, including inland stagnant water) types of water, can we?
Besides -- we'd need even more in that case to build a gradient from shallow to deep water. A bit of an overkill, I think.
AFAIK we still are restricted to 16 different terrains for one world, unfortunately.
But you might try pestering SirVer with this (go, Chuck, go!)
-- he once said it was not impossible to lift that restriction, although I fear
it would mean giving up on S2 Maps compatibiliy.
And now for favourite hate object: Blackland water tiles.
What is your opion on this?
Here is mine:
Goddam ugly!
I could live with that if it was part of and inland swamp, or even a river system,
but having an ocean with these tiles looks like Mordor revisited. Who wants this?
The problem is of course: In Blackland, it's this water, or none at all.
With that color, you cannot even start going for any translucency!
The fact of the matter is that I really like Blackland because of its predominantly dark background
that make the colors stick out even brighter -but that water is show stopper for me.
Besides - I can't see any linkage between that kind of water color and a "volcanic wourld".
Does Hawaii have an ocean like that? Lanzarote...? Hell, no!
So -- I'm kindly asking the Defenders of the Muddy Waters to raise their voices and speak up now!
Otherwise I am totally in favour of dropping this tile and replacing it with some nice turquoise variant.
Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).
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chuckw
Joined: 2010-03-15, 15:23
Posts: 945
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
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Posted at: 2011-08-06, 17:19
Astuur wrote:
Coming to the rest of your posting, Chuck.
The general idea was to have a decent Greenland animation, and see then what we can do for the other worlds.
The winterland water animation could be substituted or something else of your own design.
But I have done one for winterland !? Not good enough?
It's a special case, as the water color must fit the ice_flows.
Or are you insisting in the "dull steel grey" idea that you had initially?
I think you misunderstood my comment. I mean to say the winterland water animation is very acceptable and I suggested that it might optionally be used in greenland, as well.
I find the effect not as distracting in your lighter desert water animation.
There the contrast of the white pixels is not so great and, hence not as noticeable.
Very well, if you think so, we can use lighter variant then.
Personally I'd prefer it for a lagoon type of water (shallow, with a lot of sun in it), but we cannot
have 2 (or even 3, including inland stagnant water) types of water, can we?
Besides -- we'd need even more in that case to build a gradient from shallow to deep water. A bit of an overkill, I think.
AFAIK we still are restricted to 16 different terrains for one world, unfortunately.
But you might try pestering SirVer with this (go, Chuck, go!)
-- he once said it was not impossible to lift that restriction, although I fear
it would mean giving up on S2 Maps compatibiliy.
I have submitted bug report #821553 to address the question.
And now for favourite hate object: Blackland water tiles.
What is your opion on this?
Here is mine:
Goddam ugly!
I agree. 
I could live with that if it was part of and inland swamp, or even a river system,
but having an ocean with these tiles looks like Mordor revisited. Who wants this?
The problem is of course: In Blackland, it's this water, or none at all.
With that color, you cannot even start going for any translucency!
The fact of the matter is that I really like Blackland because of its predominantly dark background
that make the colors stick out even brighter -but that water is show stopper for me.
Besides - I can't see any linkage between that kind of water color and a "volcanic wourld".
Does Hawaii have an ocean like that? Lanzarote...? Hell, no!
So -- I'm kindly asking the Defenders of the Muddy Waters to raise their voices and speak up now!
Otherwise I am totally in favour of dropping this tile and replacing it with some nice turquoise variant.
Let's try it!
Meanwhile, I still have to check your latest animations for the greenland water. I hope to get to that today.
I see little people.
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chuckw
Joined: 2010-03-15, 15:23
Posts: 945
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
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Posted at: 2011-08-06, 18:11
Here are my observations and opinion on the water animations for greenland you offered in post #5556 above:
- 1) water no sparkling - I observed and am pleased this has a more turquoise hue than the previous set. The removal of the white pixels has minimized the distraction caused by its predecessor. I see what you men by the vertical striping.
- 2) water minimized vertical stripes - very nice job of sublimating the striping effect.
- 3) water blended - I like the wave simulation in this animation best. However, I am still finding the white pixels distracting and drawing attention to the strict pattern of the tiles that I feel would not be as apparent without them.
So of these three animations, I like #2 most, but I think #3 would be superb without the high-contrast sparkles.
What do others think?
I see little people.
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Astuur
Topic Opener
Joined: 2009-02-28, 09:08
Posts: 733
One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
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Posted at: 2011-08-06, 20:18
Will give you your #3 without the sparkles
(..but not today, gonna try that tomorrow, okay?)
If you then think, that #3 treated like #2 (editing out the spray effect) would be worthwhile,
I can try that, too. But it's all manual editing with a simple paintbrush and a lot for cross-checking.
So that will take some time for 30 frames.
Yeah, I'd like some other opinions on that, too....
Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).
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Marcelo_do_Pagode
Joined: 2011-07-23, 17:59
Posts: 36
Pry about Widelands
Location: Brazil
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Posted at: 2011-08-07, 01:16
I liked #3 best too, specially when picturing it without the sparkles.
Marcelo do Pagode
Ubuntu 11.04
Colorado com muito orgulho!
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chuckw
Joined: 2010-03-15, 15:23
Posts: 945
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
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Posted at: 2011-08-07, 01:40
I am happy with #2, but I'd be nearer to Nirvana with a sparkless #3. 
I will leave it as your call if you want to tackle editing the 30 frames of #3. IMHO, either animation set is a vast improvement over what is currently in greenland.
As an option, we could implement set #2 now and then put #3 in if/when you want to get around to it.
EDIT: FYI - I will be away for Sunday and part of Monday, but I'll try to at least touch base some time on Monday.
Edited: 2011-08-07, 01:43
I see little people.
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